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GOD EITHER IS OR IS NOT


Posts: 109
Joined: 2005-10-27
Humanity seems to need God(s) in order to define individual existence and purpose. If there is no single or collective higher being, why is there life? Happenstance? Chance? Doesn't man want some promise of immortality, of continued existence, somewhere? Religion is the narcotic of the masses. Why religion and not spirituality? Why do we continue to believe we need mandated ritualized order in place of information and independent thought?



Posts: 1343
Joined: 2003-05-03
Re: GOD EITHER IS OR IS NOT
Which god are you talking about? There are lots of them. There isn't any god just called God. Calling your god God is loading the question.



Posts: 575
Joined: 2006-09-23
Re: GOD EITHER IS OR IS NOT
rallen 1- Only one thing I can say, that for sure their is only one God ( Allah ) , that all of us need him, he is neither male or female and he is beyond even our imagination. His contributes and characteristics are totally different form whom he creates. 2- He is the one who creat me and you and every atom in this world. Their is no God exept one God and prophet mohmed (pbuh) with others prophet was his messengers to people through different era and the last prophet is mohamed (pbuh). This is the real truth which millions of people dont accept like also milyar muslims accept, so I think the history is repeated in all ages, as before in all eras , many people disbelieve in God and the messenger send at that time, so also we are in the information era and it is the same, and that let me think for sure that quran is from God almighty, as even if I want or not, their will be sinner people and wrightous people in all times of the history and no body can change this equation for ever, our message is only to deliver the truth and that is. our life have to has a sense and we are not created to play and make sins without punishment or rewards. I hope all will be rewarded .



Posts: 1343
Joined: 2003-05-03
Re: GOD EITHER IS OR IS NOT
There are many gods. Since gods are created by us, the biggest celebrities are those with the most fans. Yahweh the Jewish god has only a limited number of fans who are Jewish. However, he is one of the dynamic duo of Jehovah and the Son of Jehovah, worshipped by Christians; so he's big in the supernatural world. Allah comes in second. Many gods are complete has-beens. The gods of the ancient Greeks were taken over by the Romans and then kicked out of the ratings by the aggression of the Christian army of God and Son and the host of saints.



Posts: 575
Joined: 2006-09-23
Re: GOD EITHER IS OR IS NOT
eric 1- Are you kidding ? how come you worship many Gods created by ordinary people, really I dont believe that their are educated people whom worship many Gods. e.g do you mean that the God of jewish created only jewish people ? and God of christian created only christian people and Alah is only for muslim ? do you really mean that . 2- How I will worship God whom I created ? like before islam arabs were created their Gods and idols to worship from dates and some from rood, and when some people are hungrey they go directly to their Gods and eat them! Is it ok for you the same . really it is a joke to laugh.



Posts: 1343
Joined: 2003-05-03
Re: GOD EITHER IS OR IS NOT
How did Islam spread? Nobody accepted Islam because they thought it was the true religion. Islam spread by violence. Holy warriors killed, enslaved and oppressed people of other religions. Allah is of no importance. It was a matter of violence and coercion.



Posts: 575
Joined: 2006-09-23
Re: GOD EITHER IS OR IS NOT
1- ok, how islam spread in indonesia and 99 of them are muslims and their was no violoence and not spreading by violoence, they enter islam voluntary after muslim traders used to travel thei for exchange of goods. 2- now where is the matter of violence and holly war and even after 911 also many inters islam from the west, it depends on each person and how he can understand and analyze things and have the desire to believe and not anything else. If you dont want to beleive , so you find millions of execuses, and that doesnt mean you are correct.



Posts: 210
Joined: 2007-01-09
Re: GOD EITHER IS OR IS NOT
In the Name of Almighty GOD, the All-Merciful, the One who created the heavens and the earth and everything in them, the only One who deserves mankind's worship... A simple look at the world around us is all it takes to understand what many never take time to reflect upon. The details of this awesome universe we live in explicitly prove the presence of a magnificent and unequalled author. Some try to deny His existence, relying on their invented theories, assumptions derived from unproven conjecture and guesses. They conjure principles that no rational mind can follow. For example, they say that our universe is a "cosmic coincidence," a result of billions of years of random self-assembly. However, if they would come out of their house in the morning and find a new car in their driveway, they would demand to know who put it there. Imagine if was said to them: "No one put it there, in fact the parts just gathered from unknown places and assembled themselves overnight with no one's help. This is the result of a cosmic coicindence!" No one in his right mind could accept this answer. Indeed GOD gave us intellects that do not allow us to believe such nonsense. So if people can not accept the parts of a single car coming together randomly, then how can they believe that the entire universe accomplished such a feat?! From the sky full of stars and other visual wonders, to microscopic organisms we are still discovering, to the design and function of the organs of the human body, can one possibly believe that all of this is the result of a mere coincidence? Look up and think about how everything you see is organized in such a perfect way! The sun, a ball of fire millions of miles away, provides us with the heat and light we depend on every day. About it, GOD says: And I (GOD) made a blazing, radiant lantern (78:13) After the length of the day, mankind indeed needs a rest from the warmth and illumination of the sun. GOD causes the sun to set and gives us darkness to rest, and a perfect nightlight the moon and the splendorous stars. What masterful organization! GOD says: He (GOD) has put the night and the day in your service, as well as the sun, the moon, and the stars - all in subjection by His Command. Verily in this there are signs for people of intellect. (16:12) And GOD says: Don't you see how GOD merges the night into the day and He merges the day into the night, (don't you see) that He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law), each running its course for an appointed term? And surely GOD is well-acquainted with what you do. (31:29) GOD also says: Among His Signs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Do not prostrate to the sun or the moon, rather prostrate to GOD, the One who created them, if you really wish to worship Him. (41:37) Today's scientists comment on the precise balance of the sun and moon, guessing at the innumerous disasters that would occur if the sun or the moon were to stray from their paths the slightest bit. The rational mind can come to only one conclusion, that indeed something is keeping all of this in order. GOD says: He (GOD) draws the night as a veil over the day, each seeking the other in rapid succession. He (GOD) created the sun, the moon, and the stars, all governed by His Command. Is it not His Right to create and govern? Blessed is GOD, the Cherisher and Sustainer of all that exists! (7:54) We understand quite clearly that, since this paper you are reading was written, then there was a writer, even though you do not see him. And for every speech there was a speaker, and every delicious dish has a cook behind it. So for every creation, including our very existence, there is indeed a creator. The Creator is GOD who is without partners Now that we agree that we are not the product of chance, that we have been created, let us understand some things about our Creator. The One who created us, GOD, is also the sole Creator of everything else that exists, as He says: Such is GOD, your Lord, the Creator of all things. There is no god except Him! (40:62) Because of GOD's ominous power and control over the universe, it is not befitting for man to believe that He needs anyone to help Him. For verily GOD is Alone and does not share His Majesty with anyone. He is the possessor of infinite mercy and compassion for those who obey him, and His punishment is the most severe and lasting for those who turn away from Him. GOD says: As for those who believed and did righteous deeds, their Lord will admit them to His Mercy, and that will be the Achievement for all to see! (45:30) And GOD says: For those who believe and do righteous deeds, He (GOD) will give them their rewards, and more, out of His bounty. But those who are disdainful and arrogant, He will punish them with a grievous penalty, and they will not find anyone to protect or help them besides GOD. (4:173) As it is not befitting for us to ascribe a rival, partner, or associate to GOD, it is extreme blasphemy to accuse Him of having a father, mother, son, or other descendants or relatives. GOD tells us: Say: HE is GOD, the One and Only; the eternal, absolute GOD who did not father anyone, nor is He the son of anyone. (112:1-4) What a tremendous crime it is to claim that GOD, the One free from all imperfections, has a son! Unfortunately, many believe that Jesus is GOD's son! Indeed Jesus holds a high rank, as the Word of GOD and the Conveyor of His Message, but not as His son, for GOD is high and exalted above such a false claim. About this, GOD says: They say: "The Most Merciful (GOD) has begotten a son!" Indeed you have put forth a most monstrous idea! It is as if the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin for what they say about the Most Merciful (GOD) having a son! For it is not befitting for the Most Merciful (GOD) to take a son. (19:88-92) So GOD is the sole Creator and Maintainer of all that exists. He has no partner or affiliate, as He says: Follow what is revealed to you from your Lord there is no god except Him Alone! And turn away from those who join other deities with GOD! (6:106) Do we owe Him something? Now that we agree that GOD is our only Creator and Provider, and we have seen His Statements denying any partners for Himself, we want to know Does He want something from us? GOD has a right over us, as He created us. He is not asking much. He is only asking us for that which he asked every nation before us that we obey Him and follow His Messengers. He has asked us to worship Him and not to associate partners with Him. He says: For surely I (GOD) sent a messenger to every nation, commanding them to worship GOD and shun false deities. (16:36) It is a very simple request, taking into account all He has given us. Say: "It is He (GOD) who has created you and made for you the faculties of hearing, seeing, feeling and understanding. Little is the thanks you offer. (67:23) We naturally feel the urge to thank anyone who gives us something. If we thank people for their generosity, should we not then thank our Lord who has blessed us with so much? He reminds us: And if you were to try to count the blessings of GOD, you could never enumerate them! Verily, mankind is ever oppressive and ungrateful. (14:34) So to be truly thankful to GOD would entail worshipping Him, as He has commanded us, obeying Him and following the Revelation that He sent to us. In doing this, we will fulfill the purpose of our existence, as GOD did not create us without a purpose: And I did not create the Jinn or Mankind except to worship Me. (51:56)



Posts: 1343
Joined: 2003-05-03
Re: GOD EITHER IS OR IS NOT
In the Name of Almighty GOD, the All-Merciful, the One who created the heavens and the earth and everything in them, the only One who deserves mankind's worship...zawa-je This is all raving lunacy. The Middle East was Christian and the region was converted to Islam by extreme violence.



Posts: 575
Joined: 2006-09-23
Re: GOD EITHER IS OR IS NOT
eric 1- From where you got your information as the middle east was christian, as islam was originated in middle east also and still are many christians till now prefer to live in middle east with muslims than to live in the west , I witness all these and daily I saw them and speak to them, where is the violence ? it is only rooted in your mind and you dont want to change and think reasonabley, so it ok, that is you , but not all the people are like you in what they believe, thanks God .



Posts: 704
Joined: 2004-07-31
Re: GOD EITHER IS OR IS NOT
abdulksaida, Believe whatsoever you wish, but the truth of the matter is that Islam was spread by the sword. If you knew the history of your own religion you would accept that this was so. If you go to the Palace of Topkapi you will see Mohammed's sword. And what is more he used the damn thing. He did not spread his religion by the power of his argument, nor the quality of the word, but by violence and conquest. I invite you to tell me where I can find Christ's sword ? Therein lies a huge difference which you neither understand nor appreciate. My argument with you is simply that you refuse to acknowledge either that Islam was initially spread by the sword, and that now my people, CHRISTIANS, are persecuted and discriminated against in virtually every Moslem country. Much as I disagree with the pope (the Bishop of Rome) I agree with him that it is time we in the Christian West demanded greater reciprocity from you in the Islamic East. You would be outraged if we treated Muslims residents within our lands as Christians are treated in many Moslems lands. Yes, that includes the inability to visit Mecca or Medina, or even to build a Church in Saudi Arabia, hold a Christian service there, import Bibles and Prayer Books. All I see is bigotry and hate which things such as that merely underlines, as does the treatment of jews and Christians in the Koran. To me what is striking about many of your posts is the sense of 'victimhood' - the constant refrain that Muslims are an oppressed people - and the complete refusal to accept any form of responsibility - everything is the fault of the wicked Christian West. This is a dangerous and an evil cocktail. Islamic fundamentalism might have an appeal to you and to your people but ultimately the intolerance, violence, bigotry and hate which is at its core will destroy and poison the well from which you drink. It is corrosive to the very Soul.



Posts: 210
Joined: 2007-01-09
Re: GOD EITHER IS OR IS NOT
Why Building of Temples and Churches, and Propagating Other Religions, is Prohibited in Saudi Arabia? Q. Why is building of temples and churches and the propagation of any religion other than Islam not allowed in Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia? A. 1. Example of selecting a Maths teacher: Suppose you are a principal of a school and you have to select a Mathematics teacher. It is obvious that you will interview the candidates. If one teacher says that 2 + 2 = 3, the other says 2 + 2 = 4 and the third says 2 + 2 = 5 whom will you select? Since you know mathematics is logical, you will never select or allow a person to teach mathematics who doesnt even know the basics of arithmetic that 2 + 2 = 4. 2. Where religion is concerned Muslims are experts: Similarly in the field of religion, Muslims are the best and Quran clearly mentions in Surah Ale Imran, Chapter 3, verse 19 (3:19): The Religion before Allah is Islam (submission to His will). [Al-Quran 3:19] It is further mentioned In Surah Ale Imran Chapter 3, verse 85 (3:85) If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good). [Al-Quran 3:85] 3. No other religious scripture claims that its religion alone is true. There is no other religious scripture on the face of the earth besides the Quran which says that only its religion is true, correct and acceptable to Almighty God, and that all the other religions are false and hence not acceptable to Almighty God. If you are a school principal who knows Maths, you will never allow a person to teach Maths in your school who does not know Maths. Similarly Muslims, who are experts in the field of religion and know that Islam is the only true religion, will not allow anyone in the country of Saudi Arabia to preach any other religion besides Islam. Isn't it true that Islam was spread by the sword? No. This is not true. However, this is a common misconception in the minds of many people. The Qur'an declares: There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error (Qur'an 2:256). This Qur'anic verse shows that God has made truth and falsehood distinct from each other and people are therefore free to choose one or the other. No one can be forced to believe in a religion since belief is something very personal. One who follows the Qur'an will not try to force another person to believe. Even the prophet Muhammad, on whom be peace, could not force another person to become a Muslim. God revealed to him the following words: And if your Lord willed, all who are in the earth would have believed together. Would you then compel people until they become believers? It is not for any soul to believe except by the permission of Allah (Qur'an 10:99-100). This instruction from God makes it clear that anyone is mistaken who thinks that he or she can compel others to believe. If God wanted, He could make everyone believers, but rather has given them free choice. Even so, no one can believe upon being forced. It is the grace of God on a person that will result in belief. Is there a teaching more beautiful than this? How could any true follower of the Qur'an turn around and force his faith on others? On the contrary, the Qur'an instructs its followers on how to call people to true faith as follows: Call unto the way of your Lord with wisdom and fair exhortation, and reason with them in the better way (Qur'an 16:125). Where does the Qur'an tell anyone to call people at the point of a sword? It does not. God instructed his messenger, on whom be peace, as follows: Say: This is my Way: I invite unto Allah with sure knowledge, I and whosoever follows me (Qur'an 12:108). Here again, the call is to be made with sure knowledge, with clear evidence. Putting these instructions together, a Muslim understands that he or she must present Islam with clear evidence (i.e. sure knowledge) and use wisdom and fair exhortation to reason with people to accept the evidence for faith. Where is there any mention of sword in all of this? The Junior Encyclopedia of Canada says: Islam is the fastest-growing religion worldwide (The Junior Encyclopedia of Canada, Hurtig Publishers, Canada, 1990, Vol.2. p.396). What explains this phenomenon? Who is forcing anyone today to become Muslims? Muslims are not even engaged in active preaching in any noticeable degree. People are voluntarily coming into Islam because they find that Islam makes sense. Huston Smith discusses in his book entitled The World's Religions, on page 256, how the prophet Muhammad, on whom be peace, granted freedom of religion to the Jews and Christians under Muslim rule. The prophet had a document drawn up in which he stipulated that Jews and Christians shall be "protected from all insults and vexations; they shall have an equal right with our own people to our assistance and good offices," and furthermore, that they shall "practice their religion as freely as the Muslims" (Quoted in The World's Religions by Huston Smith, Harper Collins, 1991, p.256). Smith points out that Muslims regard that document as "the first charter of freedom of conscience in human history and the authoritative model for those of every subsequent Muslim state" (p.256). So, was Islam spread by the sword? The following short answer comes from Ira Zepp Jr., a non-Muslim, in his book entitled A Muslim Primer: It is unfortunate that Islam has been stereotyped as the 'religion of the sword' or that Islam was 'spread by the sword.' The historical reality is that the expansion of Islam was usually by persuasion and not by military power. In any case, Islam cannot be forced on anyone; if profession of the shahadah [i.e. the declaration of Islam] is forced on someone, it is not true Islam (A Muslim Primer by Ira Zepp, Jr., 1992, Wakefield Editions, US, p.134). Have you ever wondered about your tongue? It is one of the wonderful creations of Allah. Allah Ta'ala gave each of us one tongue. But this one tongue is able to taste thousands of different types of food and drinks. If our taste buds on the tongue were to become inactive, we would not know the difference between an orange or a stone. Moreover, like finger print, everyone has a different tongue print. Relative to its size, tongue is also the strongest muscle in the human body. And it is the only muscle which is connected to only one side. The tongue is so strong that it can create a pressure on the roof of the mouth equivalent to the weight of two double decker busses! The strongest muscle of our body, the tongue, has been created by Allah for us to glorify Him. Trully, with the help of this tongue, we are able to recite the Glorious Quran and talk about Allah's Greatness. Let us not spoil the tongue by backbiting, slandering and lieing



Posts: 1343
Joined: 2003-05-03
Re: GOD EITHER IS OR IS NOT
Why Building of Temples and Churches, and Propagating Other Religions, is Prohibited in Saudi Arabia? Dear zawa-je, It is dishonest not to credit the source of quotations. This is known as plagiarism. Please don't post tendentious, or other, prose as though it were all your own work.



Posts: 575
Joined: 2006-09-23
Re: GOD EITHER IS OR IS NOT
eric 1- could you not see all quotations mentioned in mr jawaze ? All either from Quran, or even he wrote for you the name of authors , names, and even pages. so what you want more ? where is plagiarism ? and for your information all of these are known to all muslims by logic and raised to it since were kids, but the new thing is to hear it again from a non-muslim writers as only reminder of us. Read again carefully and you will see creditation in every paragraph.



Posts: 205
Joined: 2006-06-02
Re: GOD EITHER IS OR IS NOT
For a while we have been infested by coconut Trolls, now we have Islamic Trolls: Quick, lets call for some pesticides.



Posts: 575
Joined: 2006-09-23
Re: GOD EITHER IS OR IS NOT
robert 1- why you didnt mention names of people doing troll as you mention only name of coconut troll, so why you utter islamist, see the problems is from you and always you engage islam for showing bad intention toward it. if you mention our names it is ok not like that



Posts: 585
Joined: 2005-12-24
Re: GOD EITHER IS OR IS NOT
rallen, If there is no single or collective higher being, why is there life? Happenstance? Chance? If there is a answer it is probably completely unreasonable and maybe a little embarrassing. ;) Doesn't man want some promise of immortality, of continued existence, somewhere? Oh sure, but you only know for certain what you have at this moment. Its a good idea to always appreciate where you are in life; it's your experience, and others experience of you. Why religion and not spirituality? Why do we continue to believe we need mandated ritualized order in place of information and independent thought? Because we all have different needs? Sorry, I do know what you are getting at. What's wrong with a comfort zone? Although, its true that what's comfortable for one person may be oppressive to another. Religion deals with issues that can normally cause despair. Human beings are at their best when supporting each other. Religion has a structure set up for that, but if you aren't religiously inclined, that won't work for you, but the need for support is still there. I think that as a society we could work on being supportive without interfering with independent thought and personal spirituality.



Posts: 210
Joined: 2007-01-09
Re: GOD EITHER IS OR IS NOT
DEAR FRIENDS Thank you for casting aspersions in advance.But let see this video on ,'Does God exist'? http://www.thedeenshow.com/video_51.html



Posts: 1343
Joined: 2003-05-03
Re: GOD EITHER IS OR IS NOT
I don't think you can expect us to view a lengthy Islamic propaganda film. If there's any useful argument in it, perhaps you could mention what it is. Of course, you may not have bothered to watch it yourself.



Posts: 210
Joined: 2007-01-09
Re: GOD EITHER IS OR IS NOT
DEAR ERIC You always put obstacles when i suggest positive and interesting materials. When you watch a film or read a novel or a short story,you analyse it and speak about the main themes and the characters.This time iam asking all of you to stay for 30 minutes to watch it for discussion.Are you for or against the provided arguments.What does the preacher wants to convey.what thypes of arguments and evidenced does he use.are they concrete or abstract.Logical or irrational.Emperical or therotical. Eric were happy during your childhood? .Did your parents alllo you to play with your friends,how were you treated by your teachers.Were they religious.Have you suffered from the lack of means ?THANK U Did your teachers bring about your rejection of faith



Posts: 1343
Joined: 2003-05-03
Re: GOD EITHER IS OR IS NOT
You always put obstacles when i suggest positive and interesting materials.zawa-je On the assumption that you have actually viewed this 'interesting material', you might mention, briefly, what is interesting and positive about it.



Posts: 349
Joined: 2005-04-21
Um... WTF happened to all
Um... WTF happened to all the recent posts? Only half the thread is here...



Posts: 205
Joined: 2006-06-02
God either is or is not
Joe, I know you live far away, still you should know by now the staff at oD has been working like mad to bring the new system up to par with the old one, but a few things are still missing. Be patient: God will sort it all out sometimes soon.



Posts: 27
Joined: 2007-06-11
God either is or is not
These are the kind of people who give God a bad name: No more the party girl: Paris finds God and plans new life after jail "...celebrity inmate Paris Hilton claimed a remarkable transformation in her character. She said she was no longer superficial, had found God, wanted to work with sick children and had not looked in a mirror since entering prison." However she is hoping for early release. "Usually with a situation like mine, the person serves 10% of their time. I have already served 30% of my time. I hope if there is overcrowding in the jail, I would be let out."



Posts: 585
Joined: 2005-12-24
edited.comment.
edited.comment.



Posts: 109
Joined: 2005-10-27
Amazing Controls
..and here I thought the controls on the forum posts were for rating the author of the post....lol By the way... just because you have really old documents, books, temples and mosques, created by really old people does not make what they say the truth, especially for anyone besides yourself. If you think your brand of religion is perfect for you...have at it! But remember, it is not for me. I really don't care how many prophets or messiahs you have or how many verses you have memorized. I don't care! Many are under the illusion that because a prophet said it, it must be true. Of course, after they repeatedly slap you with their stylized faith you are almost willing to agree just to get them off your porch. What really makes me wonder is when will Americans get a belly full of the constant destruction that invariably spreads from the Middle East? Maybe around the same time that those same folks remember what happened here on 9/11/01.



Posts: 210
Joined: 2007-01-09
PLS WATCH , TASTE AND
PLS WATCH , TASTE AND EXPERIENCE ON http://www.watchislam.com/videos/index.php?catid=-1



Posts: 109
Joined: 2005-10-27
OK
I'll give it a shot zawa-je



Posts: 26
Joined: 2007-05-05
Owly
Wow, you're not biased or one sided at all. Christians are such angels. I suppose the crusades never happened, Evangelical lobby groups don't support any rapture ideology that promotes political hypocrasy and unbalance in middle eastern policy and certainly no Christian countries are occupying Iraq or Afghanistan right now.
--

"Growing old is mandatory. Growing wise is optional" -Anonymous



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