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Iron Mike

4 August 2008 - 10:55pm

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Quote: But we must also lead by attracting others to our cause, by demonstrating once again the virtues of freedom and democracy, by defending the rules of international civilized society and by creating the new international institutions necessary to advance the peace and freedoms we cherish.? We will demonstrate the virtues of freedom and democracy by creating international institutions to advance peace and freedoms we cherish? This will attract others to our cause? What a load of crap.

Another substantial discussion, right Candace? "...creating the new international institutions necessary to advance the peace and freedoms we cherish..." is clearly a reference to his proposed League of Democracies which you dislike, but never refute beyond "..load of crap" Wow, that really clears up any confusion.

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Quote: Perhaps above all, leadership in today’s world means accepting and fulfilling our responsibilities as a great nation. Responsibility to Americans first! He continually implies >fix America by fixing all the countries that do not think like us< which is outrageously stupid.

Your interpretation, not mine. The US is one of the great world superpowers. There is a responsibility that comes with that status, if that status is to be retained. You can lead, follow, or get out of the way. Only if you lead, can you influence the direction of the path.

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Gee, I wonder what advance our values is supposed to mean and what methods are going to be used. How do you advance your values in areas of the world where there is a common belief that we're immoral? And what is our shared interests that we need to defend? Oil? What is it?

"Advance our values" refers to the promotion of democratic values. Methods are first and foremost peaceful. Prosperity is a universal motivator and peace is cheaper than war. In areas of the world where there is a "common belief we're immoral" that judgment is often based in ignorance, religious bias, and medias that are manipulated for political agendas. The fact is, when it comes to democratic freedoms, you have to accept the fact that some people will make a free choice for immorality. Any truly democratic society will have to deal with the consequences of free will--immorality. You prefer otherwise? And what are our shared interests? Trade. We have things other country want; other countries have things we want. Yes, that include oil which should be no surprise. It's a strategic resource. China and India both subsidize oil to the retail market because they clearly make the connection between national growth and access to cheap energy.

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What about the collective will of Middle Eastern countries and any others that don't want to be like us? Do we need to listen to their views and respect them?

Absolutely! And as long as they don't try to kill us, then we can afford to live and let live. But the fact remains that many of these countries have few resources EXCEPT their oil and they cannot eat it; they have to trade with the world community if they want our goods and services. That means they need to listen to OUR views and respect them.

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Strange that you were only commented on my reference to Joe as a neocon and said nothing about the article. Maybe you agree that Hagee should be compared to Moses.

I said nothing about the article because I found nothing worth commenting on. The comparisons between Hagee and Moses were gratuitous and out of context. You said nothing about my Hosanna Obama article, does that mean you agree with author about the anointed one? Silence does not necessarily imply agreement.