open Democracy News Analysis - Boycotting Israel: a reply to Jacqueline Rose, - Comments

englishman on "Boycotting Israel: a reply to Jacqueline Rose"

englishman — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 19:14:38 +0100

It is hard to see any boycott being effective unless the USA was part of it. As Israel depends heavily on US support a boycott by the USA is a meaningless concept - withdrawal of US support would be sufficient. Also the academics being boycotted are, by and large, those who would wish to see a fair and just solution with the Palestinians. Cross-investment between Israel and the USA also makes such a move problematic, as it did with SA of course. US companies do have major subsidiaries in Israel, including Intel and Motorola for example, as was alluded to by rizzasrach. The good education in Israel and lower pay rates make Israel an attractive prospect for hi-tech companies.

eric_5 on "Boycotting Israel: a reply to Jacqueline Rose"

eric_5 — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 12:48:42 +0100

What you and I may consider rational doesn't seem that way to those who start from different premises. Inbuilt into the concept of the Jewish State is that the concerns of Jews take priority over those of non-Jews. Therefore, the notion of justice is that Israel should prevail (not at any cost, but, certainly, at the cost of of sufferng tp others). The first conquest of Palestine was achieved by what , by the standards of the time, was the, entirely moral, extermination of the native population. We have moved on since then. The displacement of the native population is a gentler genocide. From the given premises, an agenda to this effect is rational and impartial justice is not. Jewish nationalism is not unique in this respect, of course. Far from it.

Richard Lawson on "Boycotting Israel: a reply to Jacqueline Rose"

Richard Lawson — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 11:55:22 +0100

abdulksaida wrote:

...may be Israel don't want [to give] security to palestinians and to give more education and welfare to those kids, so may be they will increase in numbers and again palestinians will be more than isralei as jewish like west dont like to have much kids, may be Iam wrong, i dont know? in this crazy world really I dont know ?

Dear Abdul I looked at the link you provided. It is very moving to see a young girl suddenly surrounded by the bodies of all her family. That was an acto of terrorism by the Israeli gunboat, since terrorism is war waged against civilians. We must all work to stop this happening. The way to do this is to build peace by talking and working together, building trust and a sustainable economy. The way not to do it is to wish to do the same to some Israeli girl or boy. Two important things said above. Israelis and Palestinians have to understand that they each need to give security to the other in order to get security for themselves. This is difficult, but not so difficult as the next thing: We all have to understand that any area of the Earth's surface can only support so many people. It is a firm scientific concept called Carrying Capacity. The earth can only carry a set number of people, and any area of land also. We must limit our population numbers if we are not to avoid wars and mass death through starvation. Consumption patterns have to do with it, but even if we all adopt the greenest posisble lifestyle, we must realise that the Earth is finite, and so we must limit our human numbers, and that means having small families, only 2 children per couple. In the West, Catholics have to learn this truth also. http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/rwb.nsf/db900sid/AMMF-6RWFJW?OpenDocument http://www.susps.org/images/worldpopgr.gif

abdulksaida on "Boycotting Israel: a reply to Jacqueline Rose"

abdulksaida — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:23:39 +0100

Rizzasrach 1- For me bycotting if it is usefull have to be for not to export things from israel, as they are always deprive us from our exporting vegetables and fruits to even arab countries, israel control everything even when to feed and what to eat and letting us poor. If the west bycott israel of that as he did now with other arab and muslim countries, so the problem will be solved and our country will return to us or at least to live peacfully and have our degnity. 2- When the aggressors invade u contry , what shall u do? u will keep silent, in 1919 it was a conspiracy and as the whole world know that the promise to give palestine to jewish and if a theif comes to u home and wants u land , so what u will do with him, i dont think even jesus ( peace be upon him ) will keep silent if he was a palestinian and see that happened to his land even he said if anyone slap u in u right cheeck so give him the left one. See what Bush did when the tower falls and he destroyed 2 countries even they are far from what happende. So it seems becasue arabs was not accepting stealing and demolishing their homes, so they have to be punished more by stealing more lands from them !!!!! is that logic mr rizzasrach. 3- Here in arab and muslim countries, of course all people like to bycott israel products and frankly they dont like it , but as all knows, israel can export what she wants via america and hold another names inorder to go to ME and some people dont know that . Beleive me israel is a country over international law and it is injust country and it seems it wants to revenge from hallucast by doing another hallucast to palestinains, is that fair ? 4- also iam wondering, as jewish people have more customs and cultures near to the west and not the east, as all countries surronded palestine are arabs and muslims, same history, same culture, same language, same thinkings adopting same relegion and conservative and like to be the same for ever, but israel is different, it is clear that they are different form us in everything, they are the strange in our land, and not we. Can america accept cupa to be a state in the middle of America ? or China to have a state in the middle, no body agrees, even though we now wants peace and let them live with us as muslims all the history treats non muslims well and ethically , but to given our rights and dignity which is not so difficult. 5- bycotting israel to tell her, stop aggression, stop swallowing more land from palestinaisn by building the wall, stop killing children and women , stop demolishing homes of families, stop treating palestinians in a humulating way , let us refugee return back, let all palestininans pray in Al aqsa mosque, give them freedom , work, education, security, eating, and then beleive me , when all of the families are secured and their children are educated , so no war again would be, but now it came to my mind a glimse that may be isreael dont want security to palestinians and to give more education and welfare to those kids, so may be they will increase in numbers and again palestinians will be more than isralei as jewish like west dont like to have much kids, may be Iam wrong, i dont know? in this crazy world really I dont know ?

abdulksaida on "Boycotting Israel: a reply to Jacqueline Rose"

abdulksaida — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 08:52:39 +0100

Richard Lawson 1- I respect u call for peace as all of us want that, but why not to apply UN resoultions which they are alredy in the drawers of UN desks, so it is easy to start with and that will give us palestinians that the whole world is serious to solve our problems and then peace would come and all those killing. 2- Believe me we are palestinians who are effecting and hurt more than the israeli people, our children have no future not like israeli one, they are tortured , killed , and sometimes left alone in the world after the whole family died and did you see the palestinian kids who was alive after a rocket strike the beach of her family and she cried for her father and family, u can see it , also no safe, no happiness like before, no work, no education, so please tell me who is suffer more and u forget that we are not terrorists, we are defendant of our land, the land which our parents and us born their, so how could we forget that. Nothing will remain by force, their must be justice and let palestinans take equal rights as jewish in their country, then peace would come . Justice is the first thing to be applied. 3- yes bycotting israel has some advantages , but not to the long term and it can be violated and going around and it will not solve the problem from the root, we need root solutions to the conflict , but u see , each time the west launch a war in ME he creats more choas and mess and letting people more poor and ignorant, as if that is the goal of concerned politician in the west esp America and UK. here is the link for the palestinain kids who all of her family was killed and she only remain while the family wants to enjoy the beach in gaza . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFnM8NKiFso&mode=related&search=

eric_5 on "Boycotting Israel: a reply to Jacqueline Rose"

eric_5 — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:14:07 +0100

The entire world condemns Israel. The proposed boycott of Israeli academia is just one small part of this condemnation, in itself justified or not. To refer to the whole world condemnation of Israel (with the exception of the USA and acolytes) as 'Western meddling' is preposterous.

Courtney Hamilton on "Boycotting Israel: a reply to Jacqueline Rose"

Courtney Hamilton — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:59:57 +0100

If you ask me, the Middle East has seen enough Western meddling in its internal affairs. It has been nearly 200 years of Western intervention in that region that has turned that area of the globe into the bloody mess that it is today. And here it is again, Western do-gooders, demanding boycotts, sanctions and other such dubious interferences for the sake of the Palestinians. These demands will not help the plight of the Palestinian peoples, nor will it bring peace and stability to the region, but it will surely pave the way for more intrusive Western intervention in the area for the foreseeable future. To me, in the first place, the politics of peace should be about the defence of human rights and the strengthening of democratic accountability. Today however, we appear to be bombarded with primitive radicalism that seeks to condone Western interventions, whether it be economic or military sanctions or academic and cultural boycotts,– either way, calls for boycotts invite more foreign interference in the region. And besides, as someone above has as already mentioned, what exactly is the point of boycotting Israeli academics? What is the point of cutting off links with Israeli academics who live in Israel but oppose the occupation? And what about the rest of us who actually want to debate, or discuss science, medicine, art or political affairs with Israeli academia? And another thing - who exactly would police an 'academic' boycott? Are we to have the actual police saying that you cannot communicate or collaborate with that certain academic? Are we to ban every single Israeli academic and intellectual from speaking at meetings or at universities? Who is supposed to monitor such things?

Richard Lawson on "Boycotting Israel: a reply to Jacqueline Rose"

Richard Lawson — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:43:04 +0100

rizzasrach wrote:

Boycotting Israel for what? For existing?

No, Rizzasrach, not for existing, but for oppressing. When the oppression stops, the boycotts can stop. Now I know that you will respond that Israel is not oppressive, only responding to terrorism. Our response here is that these things arise mutually. Israel and Palestine are locked in a reciprocal violent struggle, with each blow creating a more bitter response. This will go on until both sides are exhausted, sick and tired of violence. Then they will talk peace. Our role, the whole world of onlookers, is to point out that this is enough war already. It is time to stop the violence, and to start confidence building measures. Your propoer task as human peoples of an arid country is not to kill as many of the opposition as you can, but to work together to manage water, forestry, agriculture and infrastructure in a sustainable way. IMHO. Shalom Richard

eric_5 on "Boycotting Israel: a reply to Jacqueline Rose"

eric_5 — Wed, 29 Aug 2007 21:29:01 +0100

Zionist shill opposes boycott. That suggests it might be effective and gives reason to consider supporting it.

rizzasrach on "Boycotting Israel: a reply to Jacqueline Rose"

rizzasrach — Wed, 29 Aug 2007 16:55:25 +0100

Boycotting Israel for what? For existing? Calling for a boycott online is a bit humorous since Israel not only invented AIM technology but Intel processors as well...but that is another subject perhaps. I find it extremely ignorant though to suggesting a boycott of Israeli academic institutions. Academia is tradionally the place where change is most likely to emanate from. It is also relevant when one realises that Israel does not discriminate in any way, shape, or form against either Arab teachers/professors OR students. Then, one must also take into account that this movement to boycott is originating in the UK. The UK, a nation that holds the Malvinas, Scotland, Wales, and many other distinct colonial remanants is a poor source of criticism as one can find. Finally, nations like N. Korea are enslaving their own populace, nations like China are doing not much better and it is getting worse as capitalism takes further root, and slavery and genocide is still the soup de jour in many places on our planet. Yet, and this is QUITE CURIOUS, all this attention is focused on a geopolitical quagmore created by the allegedly "oppressed." Had "Palestinians" accepted sovereignity and peaceful coexistence when initially offered in 1919, thiws subject would be nothing more than a sick joke. Since 1919 their lot has grown progressively worse and they have continued trying to take Israel with them. Asking people to boycott Israel? For what?

Jack Schitt on "Boycotting Israel: a reply to Jacqueline Rose"

Jack Schitt — Sat, 14 Jul 2007 06:00:55 +0100

Boycotts will work best on countries that maintain ties with the wealthy nations. Cuba has been boycotted for some 40 years now with little effect. Cuba has developed an insular economy that makes this possible. South Africa and Israel were or are essentially colonial outposts of Europe and America and cultural and economic ties between them are vitally important. Expect howls of protests whenever these ties are threatened by boycotts etc. They won´t bring down Israel but boycotts can increase the sense of isolation of the Jews, while giving the Arabs a feeling of solidarity.

mirkokick on "Boycotting Israel: a reply to Jacqueline Rose"

mirkokick — Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:44:41 +0100

I would suppose the ongoing resistance against the brutal occupation has been the most effective so far. Boycotting the Zionist Regime may be of no use since they have the unilateral support of the USA. The Israeli lobby groups (as well as the oil lobby groups) in the US make sure any presidential candidate has been bought off. Secondly Israel hides the origin of products they make because they know most of the global community with a concisions would not buy from them. You can identify their products by the serial number they use. Many countries boycott Zionist intellectuals and the Israeli prime minister from entering their soil such as Belgium and so on. Ehud Olmert would be arrested as a war criminal. That is a good start. I wonder how much longer Israel can sustain this level of occupation, the creation of refugees and a Zionist campaign of racism.

Courtney Hamilton on "Boycotting Israel: a reply to Jacqueline Rose"

Courtney Hamilton — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 15:05:56 +0100

"What happened in South Africa?" The racist Aparthied regime was overthrown by the black majority. "How this boycotts work here?" Well, it didn't work in South Africa - it only made the black majority even poorer because they had less and less access to western goods in SA. "Same principles should apply as they were prety effective." So are you saying that it was 'boycotts' that overthrew the Aparthied regime, and not the massive political pressure of the black majority? In that case, all we need to do is boycott goods from countries that cause social and political problems, and then abracadabra, like magic everything will turn out just fine? I'm afraid boycotts say far more about the people that advocate it, than it does about the problems their trying to solve.

Boycotting Israel: a reply to Jacqueline Rose,

Pink Cloud of Death — Sun, 08 Apr 2007 01:20:52 +0100

What happened in South Africa? How this boycotts work here? Same principles should apply as they were prety effective. Did boy-cotts include academic/literary work?