open Democracy News Analysis - Democracy and Iran, - Comments

Freedem on "Democracy and Iran"

Freedem — Mon, 03 Jul 2006 06:54:33 +0100

What a difference a few years, and a few idiocies can make. It seems only yesterday that Iranian Mullahs were getting weaker and Iran was becoming perhaps the most pro-american populace in the Middle East. Not that the thought was returned. Even among Liberals the memories from the hostage days still burn bright, and color the average American's view of Iran even as the majority of Iranians were not even alive at that time. As a people well aware of the negative side of living in a theocratic regime that substitutes dogma for otherwise obvious facts, there was (and I suppose still is) a great longing to have a reality based government. Left alone, or quietly supporting genuine human rights (in Iran and everywhere else)might very well have made Iran a real Democratic model for the world. Instead America had troubles with it's own Democratic model, and found itself saddled with a government most do not support, that is bent on shattering humanitarian leanings by any part of the world. I am struck by the Illogic that Right-wing excesses in one group would encourage the very same right-wing excesses in another that would lay claim to being most superior and different, when their policy thinking differs slightly in fact, and even less in aspiration. If Israel or Iran is left alone, they would fall apart by their own inconsistencies. European Jews are now much the Minority even among Jews in Israel, and demographics will soon make folk of Jewish Religion a minority again as well. In Iran the extreme age demographics was making a new idealistic Iran possible, until the Bushite invasion of Iraq strengthened the hand of right-wingers all over the Mid-east. The solution for everyone then is to oppose the right wing in every quarter. Oppose torture by Americans? Then oppose equally torture of Americans, or anyone, even as many Americans work in similar modes against torture by their government, or any other. Want Jews out of Israel? Make then feel welcome and safe in your own country, one of the larger sources of new Israelis was Jews made unwelcome in Arab countries their families had been in for centuries. Before Bush launched his Jihadist attack on Muslims there was increasing calls for a more secular of at least less extreme view of Islam. Real peace can only occur when ones private religion is not a matter for any state, except to permit its free exercise as long as it does not oppress others. You cannot only attack the opposing sides' crazies they won't listen, and your own right wing crazies will encourage them to do worse. This is true no matter what side of which battle you are on.

Kiumars on "Democracy and Iran"

Kiumars — Mon, 12 Jun 2006 06:49:12 +0100

Guys guys guys, you are missing the point again! It is not the war between religions, it is the war between the good and evil Zionist/American forces, let's get them. Of course Jews and Christians can live in Palestine, haven't they in the last few millenniums? By the way, did you know that half of the Israel population are Russians?

Frank Wafaee on "Democracy and Iran"

Frank Wafaee — Tue, 30 May 2006 00:23:31 +0100

Well, they were for 2 Millenia. (Not that this would compel me to argue for Israels destruction, though.)

geoffreycairney on "Democracy and Iran"

geoffreycairney — Sat, 27 May 2006 14:56:16 +0100

If Israel (the nation state) is destroyed, and Palistinians or some other Arab/Persian or Muslim nation took over the area, Would Jewish and Christian people still be allowed to live there? Would the new masters allow safe passage for Jewish and Christian pilgrims?

Matt Murrell on "Democracy and Iran"

Matt Murrell — Wed, 09 Nov 2005 22:14:45 +0000

Bart, My pleasure.

bpsboumans on "Democracy and Iran"

bpsboumans — Wed, 09 Nov 2005 11:09:48 +0000

By stating that some states are less artifical than others you lose complete track of the definition in the first place. Thank you for enlighting us with your great sense of history. bart

Matt Murrell on "Democracy and Iran"

Matt Murrell — Tue, 08 Nov 2005 19:45:59 +0000

bpsboumans, All states are artificial, in that they do not occur naturally but are imposed on areas, usually by a military or political elite. In some cases this happened centuries ago, in others it was more recent. The states in the Middle East, for example, came about as a consequence of European colonialism (which also accounts for the US, Canada, most of Africa, etc). Israel is arguably more artificial than others, but that seems a rather pointless argument to me.

bpsboumans on "Democracy and Iran"

bpsboumans — Tue, 08 Nov 2005 17:26:20 +0000

Dear Mr. Murrell, I find it very surprising for someone to state that all states are artifical.It is simply not true. Even more suprisingly, the argument for your statement is missing and this while you are accusing others for not backing up their case. If you had shown some interest in history you could have told Raghuvanshiramesh that the State of Israel was created by the UN. Some may argue a very artificial international organ in the first place. Most other states (this is the way political life is organized on earth nowadays)share a common language, culture, religion. Not so artificial at all. From my point of view the Palestinians shared all this. And all this was taken away from them against the promises of a Pan-Arab state after the British (always the British)decided Palestina was of no use to them anymore. Please understand that not all states are artificial. on the contrary, but Israel is one of them.

bellst on "Democracy and Iran"

bellst — Wed, 02 Nov 2005 19:31:51 +0000

In response to some of your statements including your questioning of why Iran shouldnt be allowed to possess a nuclear bomb is both complex and simple. Let me give you the simple part... The development of nuclear power is and should be every countries right. However, your new president is about to destroy the little progress your country has made in earning the trust of the international community. Statements like the one he made last week referring to Israel is completely unacceptable, irresponsible, and consistant with the types of leaders deemed stupid enough to ever use a nuclear weapon. As a Christian, I have great sympathy for the palestinian people. They are suffering, and its not right. However, the establishment of a Palestinian state and the withdrawal from the West Bank is a step in the right direction for both countries. We all want to live in peace dont we? So lets continue to watch the creation of the palestinian state and hopefully a peaceful end to the crisis. Rather than inflame the situation with such remarks like the president of Iran has made. Its an unfortunate slap in the face to countries like Russia and France that have been attempting to establish that Iran could be trusted with a nuclear facility. With comments like this, it is obvious to the entire world that the leadership in Iran cannot be trusted.

raghuvanshiramesh on "Democracy and Iran"

raghuvanshiramesh — Wed, 02 Nov 2005 14:26:10 +0000

My dear friend politicians are so clever they did not left behind any proof.In this matter you to use your critical mind.If most countries are possessed atom, what is wrong if Iran possessed that Even Pakistan created that with help of U S.WHY WESTERN COUNTRIES ARE TOLERATING THAT?

Matt Murrell on "Democracy and Iran"

Matt Murrell — Wed, 02 Nov 2005 11:33:06 +0000

Raghuvanshiramesh, we must understand that creating the Israel is completely well plane tactic of strong lobby of jew of western imperialist. Aside from rhetoric, do you have any proof of this? Israel is artifical state... All states are artificial. 1]They donot want to muslim unity, and use the oil in very cheap price.[2] they want to relive their guilty consciousness. from last many centuries they hated jew and killed them mercilessly.Jew lobby and western countries succeed with their aim. Again, any proof? With this dirty manipulation all muslim countries are divided and they remain poor they are fighting with each other and remain weak. You don't think that divisions within Middle Eastern countries plays a part? Or the corruption / oppression of regimes like Iran and Saudi Arabia plays a part? IRAN RIGHTLY SAY TO DESTROY ISRAEL Even assuming that this is all somehow Israel's fault, how exactly do you think a nuclear power, backed up by the western world, can be wiped off the face the map? Perhaps when the Middle East gets past it's hatred of Israel it might see some progress. Though I suspect it's just too convenient an excuse to pass up.

Democracy and Iran,

raghuvanshiramesh — Wed, 02 Nov 2005 06:34:03 +0000

President of Iran had rightly spoke of destruction of Israel we must understand that creating the Israel is completely well plane tactic of strong lobby of jew of western imperialist. Israel is artifical state and morally anyone have no right to creat this kind of state in other`s terrory They did it for their selfish purpose.[1]They donot want to muslim unity, and use the oil in very cheap price.[2] they want to relive their guilty consciousness. from last many centuries they hated jew and killed them mercilessly.Jew lobby and western countries succeed with their aim. With this dirty manipulation all muslim countries are divided and they remain poor they are fighting with each other and remain weak. Read the rest of this post...