open Democracy News Analysis - Palestinians revealing their true colours, - Comments

CyroMax on "Palestinians revealing their true colours"

CyroMax — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 13:06:12 +0000

Mike. you are right. perdon me. I will read it more carefully next time. As I said My english is terrible. so please answer my orginal question. No, you haven't answered my question. I asked: "Why is it security of Israelis is more important than security of Palestinians?" Now, I will go through your post Perdon my explanation. lets try this again.... you said: "I acknowledged the security concerns of Palestinians " AND you also say.... "The security of Israel is NOT more important than the security of the Palestinians" NO. I dont think you believe that. thats the problem. when you are conversing with me, your answer shows you support killing of innocent Palestinians. YET it seems you are very careful of killings of Israelis. and then you write: "I acknowledged the security concerns of Palestinians " Next... you said: "while conveniently ignoring the more important point that Palestinians continue to kill each other" No I will not avoid that. When I wrote the first post, you convieniently ignored 90% my post. so continue on that.... you said: "Israelis in the full knowledge that it harms their ability to achieve the security they claim to seek" Would you please explain, what this has to do with ending the occupation? Why is it Palestinian have to "work for it" to achieve their self-determination. I am not clear on that.. you said: "but refuse to provide it when I accept your offer" Brendan has already provided a good one, in last discussion. you haven't bothered to look at it, I believe. I will give you two. and there are many many many... 1) Amnesty International (International) http://www.amnesty.org/resources/Israel_Report0706/ 2) B'Tselem (Israeli) http://www.btselem.org/English/List_of_Topics.asp you can also look at HRW (international), Amnesty, and look under israel for year to year basis. look at the articles, from past years to now. just go under Israel and occupied territories. good day. PS: sorry for the misuderstanding. It was my fault.

Iron Mike on "Palestinians revealing their true colours"

Iron Mike — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 17:23:18 +0000

Cyro, I acknowledged the security concerns of Palestinians and you concluded your "job is done" while conveniently ignoring the more important point that Palestinians continue to kill each other and Israelis in the full knowledge that it harms their ability to achieve the security they claim to seek.. You claim I should look at your impartial HRO source, but refuse to provide it when I accept your offer, claiming I am too "allergic" to look at it. Yes, once again you demonstrate the level of dialogue and logic so characteristic of so many Palestinian people and brilliantly illustrate the reason for their lack of success. Yes, "Palestinians revealing their true colors" and unfortunately, you appear to be their standard bearer. IM

CyroMax on "Palestinians revealing their true colours"

CyroMax — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:12:19 +0000

Iron Mike, "The security of Israel is NOT more important than the security of the Palestinians. Nor does the security of one come at the expense of the other" well, Iron Mike, you said it mouthful. your comments exactly sounds like the person who started this thread, whose comments people find gospel. Actually I was expecting that answer. Thank you for saying that. My job here is done. "You're right--I have not visited HRO" Yet, you made a conclusion on this conflict. NO. I WILL NOT give you the source. Since you are too ALLERGIC to look at them, you MUST find it by yourself. ANYONE can check this. There are thousands of pages of documentation, mainstream, respected, scholarly source (Israeli/International/Palestinian). good day. PS: I bet you couldn't say that if you walk through that occupied territories, but then again, there are people who can.

Iron Mike on "Palestinians revealing their true colours"

Iron Mike — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 14:03:10 +0000

Cyro, The security of Israel is NOT more important than the security of the Palestinians. Nor does the security of one come at the expense of the other. In fact, each is dependant on the other for security. However, you have to stop killing each other before you can assist each other's security. The problem is the Palestinians can't stop killing THEMSELVES, much less stop killing Israelis. Palestinians are fighting themselves AND the Israelis--it's a no win scenario for both. Unite Palestinians and negotiate with Israel in peace---if you can. Not that history suggests much optimism. You're right--I have not visited HRO. Give me a link address and I will check it out. IM

CyroMax on "Palestinians revealing their true colours"

CyroMax — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:48:16 +0000

Iron Mike, Perdon my english. you talked about, security of Israel. Why is it security of Israelis is more important than security of Palestinians? Why should security of Israel must come through in expense of security of Palestinian people? I was keep asking you, please visit HRO, there are Israeli / International / Palestinians source, what stopping you from looking at them? thank you.

Iron Mike on "Palestinians revealing their true colours"

Iron Mike — Fri, 08 Jun 2007 19:03:00 +0000

17 hurt in renewed PA Gaza clashes
By KHALED ABU TOAMEH Hassan al-Bazam, 20, who works as a bodyguard for Haniyeh, was kidnapped Monday night by Fatah gunmen. He said the kidnappers tortured him and forced him to curse God and the prophet Muhammad. "I was on my way to the Sheikh Radwan neighborhood [in Gaza City] when I was kidnapped by Fatah gunmen who were in two cars," Bazam said. "They took me to a building next to the beach, where they beat me severely with clubs and rifles. "They extinguished cigarettes on my body and melted candles on my back. They also hung me from my hands and started shooting between my legs." He said the kidnappers demanded a list of Hamas activists in his neighborhood and questioned him about the killing last month of a senior Fatah militiaman. Bazam said he was released seven hours later, but only after he agreed to curse God and Muhammad. Bazam said the kidnappers also shaved his eyebrows, beard and part of his head, which was then marked with a Force 17 [Presidential Guard] sign. "These people are real murderers," Bazam said. "Even the Jews did not do such cruel things to us." http://tinyurl.com/26zzsa Yes, the Palestinians are definitely ready to govern themselves. IM

Iron Mike on "Palestinians revealing their true colours"

Iron Mike — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 17:53:57 +0000
However, my original remark certainly has relevance. I agree. It's absolutely relevant. Unfortunately, it's also woefully ignorant. Palestinians have a home and we've seen how well they've nurtured it. IM

willow28 on "Palestinians revealing their true colours"

willow28 — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 08:41:16 +0000
> > 'perhaps if you were evicted from your home to make > way for foreigners, you'd feel like raising a little > hell too.' > > I would so its a good thing this has no relevence to > Palestine. I don't know what 'relevence' is, so I can't really respond to this comment. However, my original remark certainly has relevance.

desimol on "Palestinians revealing their true colours"

desimol — Thu, 31 May 2007 16:12:14 +0000
Our Great Foreign Secretary has a new website www.margaretbeckett.co.uk

batman on "Palestinians revealing their true colours"

batman — Sun, 27 May 2007 17:25:14 +0000
abdul '1- Yes our true colours is white, but what is your true colour?' White? The favourite colour of the shaheed. How nice. 'now I heard in Al-arabia Tv that 500 palestinians family living in Yafa since long time and have their own homes which are in front of sea , now they took a threat from israeli government to withdraw and leave their homes inorder to be demolished and 10, 000 palestinains are threatened to be out of home. so can you see the conspiracy ?' No. I see a load of bullshit but for some reason you muslims like bullshit. Have you a link to this absurd 'story'? '2- That is the democracy of your country mr batman, and this is the humanright also. so who is ruining the courntry, is it not enough for us to be discarded and become refugee and even for those people living inside what you call it israel even now will suffer. There is no hamas in yafa or heifa and they are innocent and living before even 1948. You are the one when go to any country ruin it not palestinians. It is our land and one day inchallh , we will return to it .' Stop whingeing idiot. '3- I saw the fear and sadness in their eyes in TV, so who will believe israeli government . it seems we are now palestinians the victoms and now the haluacost is planned for us. We thinks before that the people if they are really suffered, they will not give suffer to others, but it seems for israeli government is the contrary. I told you it is conspiracy .' Abdul, I'll ask you nicely one last time. Please stop fucking whingeing. I'm not interested. You palestinians cause misery everywhere you go and perhaps the best place for you to have a state is the moon.

abdulksaida on "Palestinians revealing their true colours"

abdulksaida — Sun, 27 May 2007 15:31:57 +0000
Batman 1- Yes our true colours is white, but what is your true colour? now I heard in Al-arabia Tv that 500 palestinians family living in Yafa since long time and have their own homes which are in front of sea , now they took a threat from israeli government to withdraw and leave their homes inorder to be demolished and 10, 000 palestinains are threatened to be out of home. so can you see the conspiracy ? also they will give those homes after demolishing it to rich people to built high buildings and why to think of palestinains and their suffer ? 2- That is the democracy of your country mr batman, and this is the humanright also. so who is ruining the courntry, is it not enough for us to be discarded and become refugee and even for those people living inside what you call it israel even now will suffer. There is no hamas in yafa or heifa and they are innocent and living before even 1948. You are the one when go to any country ruin it not palestinians. It is our land and one day inchallh , we will return to it . 3- I saw the fear and sadness in their eyes in TV, so who will believe israeli government . it seems we are now palestinians the victoms and now the haluacost is planned for us. We thinks before that the people if they are really suffered, they will not give suffer to others, but it seems for israeli government is the contrary. I told you it is conspiracy .

batman on "Palestinians revealing their true colours"

batman — Sat, 26 May 2007 15:51:00 +0000
' I told you their is a conspiracy toward palestinian issue. Palestinian deserve country but free country and not under any occupation from anysort.' So they can ruin their own country rather than anyone elses? Thats a valid argument. 'What is the role of palestinians in lebanon, they are also refugee and suffer. ' The following article shows clearly how the palestinians bring disaster everywhere they go. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/863018.html The armed Palestinian organizations in the Gaza Strip are demonstrating once again what has become a norm among the Palestinians - that the agreements to which their leaders commit have no value. It's enough just to listen to Palestinian citizens complaining about how the cease-fire agreements there have no meaning. Agreements are made and signed, and immediately violated. In this latest round of violence, the warring parties have already decided on a cease-fire five times. Each time, within hours, they were back to killing each other and injuring bystanders in the process. If this is how they behave among themselves, why should they be any more scrupulous in abiding by agreements with outside elements such as Israel, Jordan, Lebanon or Egypt? This is an important lesson that Israel must learn from the recent events in Gaza. The phenomenon did not originate in Gaza. During the civil war in Lebanon in the 1970s and '80s, the Palestinians agreed to and signed more than 90 cease-fires. Most were violated with terrible bloodshed. The desire to be rid of the Palestinians was the reason that many Shi'ites welcomed the IDF forces that entered Lebanon. The goal of stopping Palestinian unruliness was also one of the reasons behind Hafez Assad's invasion of Lebanon. In Jordan, the Palestinians continued to violate the agreements they reached with King Hussein until he sensed that the government was slipping from his hands. There, too, they caused a civil war in which they were beaten by the Jordanian army. The peak occurred not long ago, when the Palestinians crudely violated the Mecca agreement for the establishment of a Palestinian unity government even before the ink was dry. It is obvious, therefore, that the Palestinians do not want to, or are not capable of, keeping agreements. They'll always find an excuse or a pretext, even if it ends up hurting them. Some say this happens because the Palestinians have no national entity. But Yasser Arafat had such an entity and controlled a majority of his organizations, and he continuously violated agreements. Israel has no choice but to continue to seek agreements with the Palestinians, but it also must insist on maintaining broader margins of security. For example, by making every effort in the current situation to isolate the territories of the West Bank from the Gaza Strip and to prevent Hamas from gaining the upper hand in the West Bank. For this reason, most of the security-related sections (the acid tests) in the proposal by the American general Keith Dayton must be rejected. Another lesson from what is going on in Gaza relates to Egypt. Something strange is happening there. Granted, the Egyptians have improved their efforts to take action against the terrorists in Sinai, but if you compare the Egyptian activity against arms smugglers with the Jordanians' efforts, the Egyptians receive a low mark. Also quite serious is the way the Egyptians are turning a blind eye to Hamas' smuggling of large amounts of money, mostly from Iran, into the Gaza Strip. All they require is that those transferring the money declare the amounts. These funds are not designated for the civilian population in the Gaza Strip but for the establishment of a Hamas army. The sense in Israel is that Egypt is playing a two-faced game in the war on terror. Meanwhile, the war of attrition between Israel and Hamas is continuing, and it's reasonable to assume that it will expand to other Israeli communities that will come within rocket range. For now, Hamas is notching an achievement versus the citizens of Sderot who are abandoning their city, and against Israel as a whole. The blows Israel inflicts will not be that major, but it's important that they don't let up. A temporary incursion by the IDF deep into certain parts of the Gaza Strip is also a possibility. Hamas and the other Palestinian organizations, which seek mainly to strike civilian targets in Israel, are now complaining about Palestinian civilians being harmed. Israel mustn't punish Palestinian civilians for the attacks on its communities, but it must return fire immediately to the sources of fire, even if civilians nearby are hurt. This is the most basic and natural right to defense. The fact that Russia was the first one to criticize Israel on this is utterly ridiculous. Israel should be careful not to do in the Gaza Strip what the Russians did with such horrible brutality in Chechnya. The Norwegians, Israel's erstwhile friends, are ignoring what is happening in Sderot. While the Qassams were being launched, they announced a transfer of donations to the Palestinian Authority; money that will surely find its way to Hamas. To the launchers of the Qassams, in other words. With friends like these, you don't need enemies.

batman on "Palestinians revealing their true colours"

batman — Sat, 26 May 2007 15:46:51 +0000
'Strange then that they had their own country for over a thousand years without causing anyone trouble.' Really, when was this? You seem unaware that before the British mandate Palestine was ruled by the non arabic ttomans for a few CENTURIES so when exactly did the 'palestinians' have their own country? 'perhaps if you were evicted from your home to make way for foreigners, you'd feel like raising a little hell too.' I would so its a good thing this has no relevence to Palestine.

abdulksaida on "Palestinians revealing their true colours"

abdulksaida — Sat, 26 May 2007 14:35:44 +0000
for bloodshed in lebanon, first go and listen to news well and read from authorized sources. What is the role of palestinians in lebanon, they are also refugee and suffer. Fath al islam is not palestinains , it contains all nationalities and much are lebaneese and why now America administration quickly send support and weapons to lebanon government to kill those people . why now ? and why america quickly interfer ? what they want? as usuall they will put the palestinians as victoms by telling incorrect information . I told you their is a conspiracy toward palestinian issue. Palestinian deserve country but free country and not under any occupation from anysort.

willow28 on "Palestinians revealing their true colours"

willow28 — Sat, 26 May 2007 10:58:42 +0000
Strange then that they had their own country for over a thousand years without causing anyone trouble. Perhaps if you were evicted from your home to make way for foreigners, you'd feel like raising a little hell too. Message was edited by: willow28

Palestinians revealing their true colours,

batman — Fri, 25 May 2007 18:41:11 +0000
Chaos in Gaza and now bloodshed in Lebanon. If ever a people should be prevented from having their own state surely its the 'palestinians'.
‹ Hamas – and its Syrian and Iranian sponsors - capture priceless Palestinian Authority intelligence archives in Gaza putsch Israel threatening to attack us, says Iran ambassador to UN ›