open Democracy News Analysis - The assumptions behind peoples' acceptance of militarism, - Comments

L.W. on "The assumptions behind peoples' acceptance of militarism"

L.W. — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 07:25:32 +0000

sorry the link was broken; will try to retrieve

Iron Mike on "The assumptions behind peoples' acceptance of militarism"

Iron Mike — Wed, 10 Oct 2007 22:47:42 +0100

Quote:

it is beyond us. so why u find few immigrants are threatining? you have to be confident and each one practise freedom of relegion as also here in my country all practising what they want and living among us for more than 50 years, beleive me i know those people and i think we feel that they are quests among us and we feel that if they are not happy, so they dont stay, so we have to respect them and not find them as a threaten, so that would create hatret between u and those innocent people whom have good intentions and not bad one....That is also how many muslims think and immigrate, they dont want to change u culture as God say each one choose his relegion and no compulsion in relegion, by they are enforced to immigrate and that is the story only.

I wish it were all "live and let live" with respect for eachothers beliefs and customs. Sadly that is NOT the case with a large proportion of our Muslim immigrants who repay the nations who take them in by forcing accomodation to undermine national culture.

Quote:

A Toronto mosque called, National Post reports, The Khalid Bin Al-Walid Mosque says to "avoid participating" in dinners, parties or greetings on Thanksgiving because it is a kuffaar, or non-Muslim, celebration. Not only is this surprising, but the term kuffaar is a derogatory one meaning "ingrate" that was once applied to slaves. It gets better, "How can we bring ourselves to congratulate or wish people well for their disobedience to Allah? Thus expressions such as: Happy Thanksgiving, Happy Birthday, Happy New Year, etc, are completely out," it says. In 2003, the Khalid mosque, which mainly serves the Toronto Somali-Canadian community, apologized for a newsletter that compared wishing someone a Merry Christmas to congratulating a murderer.(link) Happy birthday, happy Thanksgiving, and Happy New Year are "completely out". Thus, I pose the question: can such extremism be compatible in Western civilization? Certainly, this Somali mosque in Toronto is not alone in its views within North America's Muslim community. The mosque also bans "watching sports or soap operas, walking dogs, family photos, wedding bands, western hats, mingling and shaking hands with the opposite sex". Allah forbid... Canada has a long history of multiculturalism, as do many other countries in Europe. The United States has traditionally been more of a "melting pot" than a mosaic, encouraging its immigrants to adopt American values, traditions, and customs to a greater extent than in Canada and Europe. Nevertheless, polls have shown shocking statistics that 25% of US young Muslim men support suicide bombings to "defend Islam" (source), and 5% have a favourable view of Al Qaeda (source). Another poll of Muslims in Western countries found that 14% of Canadians, 25% of British, 14% of Germans, and 10% of French identified with extremists in the struggle between "moderates" and "extremists" within Islam.(source)

How does this show respect for the host nation?

abdulksaida on "The assumptions behind peoples' acceptance of militarism"

abdulksaida — Wed, 10 Oct 2007 02:49:50 +0100

Also i observe that the foreigners living in arab and muslim countries are more happy than their countries, they spend more than 40 years in our country and even if they contract finish, they try to stay longer in that country, they feel muslim culture and their conservative as good for them and like the weather and many environments personally i know that the western people living among us are more satisfied and happy living with us than muslims and arabs living in western country, and that is becasue really the pure relegion of islam have tolderance to everyone and fair with everyone and considerd that God who gift his children with money, wealth , were to live and his life how it is if he depends on God, we have something wich others dont have. and u can ask many western people living outside. Also i know many foreigner women married to muslims and came from their countries and they are much educated and well shaped and like to live with their husband in muslim countires and we dont find those people are threatining, u know why? becasue we are confident of our relegion and nobody can change it as Quran is alive and no word in it has changed not becasue of us, but Allah wants that . it is beyond us. so why u find few immigrants are threatining? you have to be confident and each one practise freedom of relegion as also here in my country all practising what they want and living among us for more than 50 years, beleive me i know those people and i think we feel that they are quests among us and we feel that if they are not happy, so they dont stay, so we have to respect them and not find them as a threaten, so that would create hatret between u and those innocent people whom have good intentions and not bad one.

abdulksaida on "The assumptions behind peoples' acceptance of militarism"

abdulksaida — Wed, 10 Oct 2007 02:40:02 +0100

i think those muslim immigrants leave their countries as even some considered that the west take its wealth and interfer in it and leave the country poor. Beleive me as u dont like u culture changed , we are muslims and majority dont like their culture to be changed. Even though pork and alcohol is forbidden in jewish or christianinty relegion. it is up to the west to choose, but also they have to be aware that u culture cant be changed by few people immigrants who came for work or study. Their must be respect for those people. Also my husband mercy on him, when he left germany for ever, even he was very kind, peacfulk, faithfull, couldnt be live their for ever, he regret and came back, he dont want to change their society , he wants to live peacfully and a good family, but he cant, so he return back and start his life again, as may be he could do that as his country is among a rich countries. also some muslims thinks that the west wants to change our culture by force when he invaded afganistan and let women take off their velis, even though now they are not happy as before, all fears and why by force? is that democracy to enforce west culture to them as only by force, let them choose. The same the muslims thinks they are thereatend by the west culture which it is against their relegion and beleive me when it reached to relegion it is very sacred for them and not like other releigons for their followers. They have a special philosophy in life which cant find it in other relegions. they beleive if they didnt get what they want in life , they would get it later from just God. So as u look to muslims they look to west the same and think also that the west as christians and jewish also are theaten and by wars they destroy their countries and let them refugee and imigrants, so why u dont tolderate those immigrants which basically the west was the source of their problems when they interfer in their countries and let them poor. That is also how many muslims think and immigrate, they dont want to change u culture as God say each one choose his relegion and no compulsion in relegion, by they are enforced to immigrate and that is the story only. Believe me i met many immigrants while travelling,and many dream to return back to their homelands, they are not happy their , they feel stranger but also their country is occupied by west and america and also if u want to portrait that u are afraid of islam culture also we are afraid of christian and secular culture which is not suitable for us and our background and history would for sure refuse it and now u see they try to enforce it by wars and force as i think the west now immigrate to us and not we. We are small individulas which dont have weapons or any force, peacfull one came for work or study, but when soldiers and the whole force occupy our countries, so we are the one to feel angry more than u. the west didnt practise like us from wars and dont forget Bush word as crusade while launch a war against muslim countries.

Candace on "The assumptions behind peoples' acceptance of militarism"

Candace — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 23:36:02 +0100

Quote:

Perhaps keep trying...

naaah. :-) I was hoping someone would add on to what I said because its not something I feel passionately about, therefore not so enjoyable to put into words, but just because I dont agree entirely, that doesnt mean there isnt any validity in it because plenty of other people feel that way.

Iron Mike on "The assumptions behind peoples' acceptance of militarism"

Iron Mike — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 18:22:06 +0100

Quote:

Islamic culture is considered threatening by many people in western countries because nealy every terrorist attack in the last 10 years (or more) against the west has been committed by those claiming to be Muslim. It wasn't a group of Norweigian Nuns who hijacked planes on 9/11, or cut of Daniel Pearl's head, or blew up the USS Cole, or the African Embassy, or the Madrid Train, or the bus/subway attacks in London. I know these fundamentalist radical Muslims do not represent all of Islam. But you also cannot separate these attacks and their perpetrators from Islam either. I will agree with you that many in the west do not want their society to be changed by Muslim immigrants. Many Muslims that seek to join our societies, do so with an intent to force Islamic changes upon societies that are based upon constitutions that protect the rights of the individual. Somali taxi drivers that refuse service to airport patrons carrying pork or alcohol--school systems forced to eliminate pork from the menu are few recent examples. If Muslims immigrated with a respect for the native culture and did not force the society to change to accomodate them, many in the west would have little problem with their new neighbors.

Richard Lawson on "The assumptions behind peoples' acceptance of militarism"

Richard Lawson — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 18:17:05 +0100

abdulksaida wrote:

Really I think if the western media only report the correct scenes , and didnt hide anything, I think their will be much much more support for the just case of palestinians.

There are some brave Western journalists out there who send true reports. The trouble is, some journalists get taken hostage, and then all the journalists have to stay inside in safety, so they cannot send good reports of what is really happening. So hostage taking and killing journalists just makes things worse. Over here in Northern Ireland, one of the factors that helped to end the killing was the people. The women got together and began calling for peace. They began to make the killers think "Maybe the community does not support us". In Somalia, the Union of Islamic Courts preached against violence, and threatened punishment for anyone caught carrying a gun. That brought peace for a time, until the Ethiopians invaded. In the end, the people are powerful enough to stop any conflict, even that in Israel-Palestine. But they have to act together. This is an interesting site: OneVoice Movement to Empower Israeli and Palestinian Citizens Against Violent Extremism

Candace on "The assumptions behind peoples' acceptance of militarism"

Candace — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 18:13:07 +0100

ah the challenges of writing. rather than take the time to edit, just let me know what doesnt make sense.

Candace on "The assumptions behind peoples' acceptance of militarism"

Candace — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 18:03:01 +0100

I'll try this again. Islamic culture is considered threatening by many people in western countries because of immigration, muslim higher birthrates, and the nature of democracy. We dont want our countries to change and I'm certain the middle east doesnt want to be like us. I imagine that individual liberty commonly translates into wreckless abdandonment of responsibility by the government to allow citizens to make the wrong choices in the middle east... and then theres our godless laws or separation of religion and state that are not commonly welcome. This is some of what I was referring to when I said it was how we were different thatt caused an inability to sympathize with muslims. Both sides see what matters most to them as being threatened by the nature of what is most important to the other side. "The non negotiables" are disgusted with each other, or something like that. As far as supporting aggression towards palestinians, there is an interpretation problem. I think I can say that the majority of Americans will never see martyrdom taught to children as anything other than tragic and insane; certainly not honorable self defense- so right there, any interest their could have been in finding out whether palestinians have a legitimate gripe with Israel is dropped. Palestinians dont appear to have any ability to act with constructive foresight-- that is something we judge people by here regardless of where they're from or what religion they follow. Acts of rebellion just for the sake of the action is considered grossly irresponsible and I'm not arguing whether it is understandable, I dont believe we can identify with oppression entirely, I am only sharing a common American perspective here., I am not saying that violence against palestinians or anyone in the middle east is the answer to our culture conflict.

eric_5 on "The assumptions behind peoples' acceptance of militarism"

eric_5 — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 11:16:37 +0100

Richard, It's a misrepresentation to call the colonisation of Palestine by Israel a war. Nor is the use of violence, the beginning and end of the conflict. Terrorizing the Palestinians through the threat of military violence and impoverishing them through an economic stranglehold are the cause of the Palestinians' plight. It is inconceivable that Palestine can become a sovereign, independent state while Israel persists as a Jewish state. Besides, the Roadmap is intended to make any independent Palestinian state completely impossible. The Palestinian territory will be not much more than an appendage, similar to an Indian reservation.

abdulksaida on "The assumptions behind peoples' acceptance of militarism"

abdulksaida — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:07:56 +0100

candace 1- i think yes, some in both west and east are not teached or know how to tolerate the other, and i think that is in both of them genetic defect. i think those people also they dont tolerate their collegues from the same culture, it is sick of them . 2- i think to tolerate other based also on parents teachings since kids, never our parents let us undermine any person from any nation , i think if the environment u live in have respects for all sorts of people , then u grow on that style and consider all the same. 3- i know that u dont consider me the same, and even u r not, but those people are existing and both dont like each other, so if u look good to the other, so the other will look good to u and vice versa .

abdulksaida on "The assumptions behind peoples' acceptance of militarism"

abdulksaida — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 20:58:27 +0100

Dear mr richard 1- i hope that majority dont agree for invasion and really i appreciate that as always their must be pure just even with different cultures and so on. 2- Also i want to give my respect and admire for those, brave souls -as John Lynes of the Christian Peacemaker Teams - . Rachel Corrie who was crushed to death by an israeli bulldozer and Tom Hurndall who was shot dead, trying to protect Palestinian children. Those brave people would be alive in the memory of just history and for all good people. i remember the photo of Rachel Corrie and really i was very sad for her and her family, really she was a brave person, also at that time i wonder how she sacrified her life for others sake. i know their are some but as u say many knows but cant do anything as this also apply to some arabs. i think great work and sacrifying for others will remain as a great accomplishment and pave way for justice for palestinians. 3- To be frankly the media in the west is not against israel as they claim, always they say that, it is not giving the whole story, only short scenes and concentrate on things which will be understand as good for israel and forget the torture of palestinians. Really i think if the west media only report the correct scenes , and didnt hide anything, so i think their will be much much more supports for the just case of palestinians.

Candace on "The assumptions behind peoples' acceptance of militarism"

Candace — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:27:06 +0100

I'm sorry abdulksaida, I didnt mean you exactly, I was intending to be far more general as we were talking about middle eastern and western culture. I dont know why I wrote it that way. I suppose I was in too much of a hurry. Be back later. :-)

abdulksaida on "The assumptions behind peoples' acceptance of militarism"

abdulksaida — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:31:15 +0100

candace 1- yes , i have to accept others even in the same country with different relgion or culture, as long they are good citizens and contribute to society. i beleive that the earth is for all of us and we have to do good deeds in it and as i like others to treat me good i have to tolerate others . also dont forget that even inbetween arab and muslim countries are different in cultures and also sometimes their is no tolerance between them , that is not good. 2- also i dont forget that one day also i was a foreigner in one country , then become not foreigner, i like all to be the same and no differentiation and because of my nationality i feel discrimination towards us and i was upset of that, so i dont like to be like those people who discriminate because of nationality or culture. 3- Also we can exchange opinions without hatret, i mean if i live in a non muslim country, i will not think to change their culture or fight for them to be like my culture, each one is free to choose if he or she is peacful, respectful, and good citizen. Even i think each person has to be free and choose the land which he likes to live in , if he finds good job their with dignity. i will impose my culture on anyone and as long as each one is working and apply law of the country , so it is good tolerant and by time each one can learn from the other in good things. 4- dont forget candace that iam living in a country which have more than 100 nationality live together, so mixing of cultures and no problems. when those people choose to live in this country so they are satisfied by the culture even though it has also its defaults but it is tolerance.

Candace on "The assumptions behind peoples' acceptance of militarism"

Candace — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:16:25 +0100

abdulksaida, I think that middle eastern and western values are often times diametrically opposed. Its not that middle eastern culture is different necessarily: its how its different thats the issue for many people.

Quote:

I think we are the eastern people have more knowledge about different cultures in the world more than the west have about us.

yes but would you tolerate those same people living in your countries and your culture changing even slightly because of their input? Or would they have to conform to middle eastern social standards? And did you include uneducated people from the middle east in that comparison? I know you've travelled quite a bit and I know youre educated, but I hope that most people understand that real understanding of different cultures doesnt happen through media sources. My point to eric was that I dont see a compromise or understanding to be found between our two cultures by putting religion on trial.

The assumptions behind peoples' acceptance of militarism,

Richard Lawson — Sun, 08 Jul 2007 18:17:36 +0100

A few assumptions commonly lie behind most human thought and action. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy addresses these in the individual, very successfully. There is no reason that we should not also address the cognitive premises that lie behind the political dysfunction. I have sketched out a few of the common scripts, and addressed them. This is work in progress. 1 You have to look after number one This is the philosophy of individualism that lies behind free market capitalism. It is the dominant political philosophy of our age, but individualism is not a valid philosophy, that is, it is not true, for two reasons. Read the rest of this post...