open Democracy News Analysis - There finally is a cure!, - Comments

mirkokick on "There finally is a cure!"

mirkokick — Tue, 24 Jul 2007 22:35:41 +0100

Your point #3: then you agree with me that it's not who you are, but what you do. Your point #6: That is an inaccurate statement. First of all Islam is a religion, is it not? Well it doesn't discriminate based on race at all since Islam is based on various ethnicities. Arabs constitute only 13 percent of Muslims world wide. Furthermore when Muslims are persecuted, race has nothing to do with it, but rather their religion is their identity. Also most wars in the last century were entirely secular. World war 1, world war II, Vietnam, etc...etc...etc.. Religion has little to do with it expect serve as a guide for for humanity. It is time tested family values that prevents social and moral destruction. Sure it can be abused and you can find religious fanatics. But can find left wing fanatics and gay lobby groups that are just as bad and do way more harm than good. However this society is founded on moral principles that are life preserving. Time tested values such as family support, the institution of marriage which is really all about children. It is against murder, adultery and so on. Now, if someone is different (regardless of their ethnic background) because they want to alter the sexual norms of society, because you want to legalize harmful drugs or support pedophilia and prostitution, then excuse me. That goes against the natural order of society and will not be tolerated.

Robert_15 on "There finally is a cure!"

Robert_15 — Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:14:44 +0100

Quote:

There may be homosexuals unhappy with their lives but there are unhappy heterosexuals as well. Gay men and lesbians still face discrimination and violence - but then so do heterosexual women. We should feel no more compelled to change our sexuality than heterosexual women should to change their sex (it would be fascinating to know what van Gend thinks of people who voluntarily undergo sex -change operations). But as long as we have a “reparative therapy” industry telling us we are not fully human there will continue to be anti-gay persecution. Fortunately, as long as we are being persecuted there will be a gay rights movement fighting for our human rights and happiness.(ON LINE opinion)

#3 These are not races. There are no different human races bot only different people according to physical and/or behavioural aspects. #6 Religion is the worst offender when it comes to incite attacks on people who are different.

mirkokick on "There finally is a cure!"

mirkokick — Tue, 24 Jul 2007 01:51:26 +0100

HI, i'll rebuttal to some of your points: Do you have a source to back up your claim for #2? Furthermore you ignore the fact that suicide is highest among gays due to depression. Also did you forget about this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer For point number three, homosexuality is not akin to race. That renders your argument for that point invalid. For point number four, keep in mind that neither are liberal lobby groups. They had a massive influence on what gets published, as long as it's in their favor. For point number six, you should if you want to provide a balanced view point and argument on the subject at hand.

Robert_15 on "There finally is a cure!"

Robert_15 — Sat, 21 Jul 2007 15:03:44 +0100

Mirkokick, You raise many issues: Lets tackle them one by one. 1) Homosexuality is for animals. Humans are animals. You cannot use the argument that homosexuality is an unnatural practice, and then acknowledge that, in nature, many species of animals do it. Of course only a minority of them are homosexual or, as you say, the species will disappear. 2)"...almost 90% of the families asked, including homosexual, prefer to have and live in a traditional family given the choice. Furthermore a stable family is the birthright of any child. Marriage is about children." Preposterous: Stable homosexual relationships are as happy as heterosexual ones, and no homosexual, given the choice, will change. We live now in the XXI century: marriage is no more to have children. More and more heterosexual couples don't want any children. According to you they should not marry! I have already given you the modern definition of marriage according to Wikipedia. 3) "...will ours be a heterosexual society that tolerates a 4% gay minority or will it be a homosexual society that tolerates a 96% straight majority. If the straights in some western areas don't establish the norms, gay activists will." Homosexuals want the same rights as heterosexuals. They will always be a minority, that's why they need to be protected by the majority. Like blacks in a white society; like Jews in a Christian society; like Catholics and Armenians in Muslim Turkey. They are different, but normal, law-abiding citizens. 4) "Actually the Pentagon issued a diagnosis that homosexuality was a mental illness." The Pentagon is the least expert and the least appropriate Institution to give opinions about sexual behaviour. 5) "The world health organization had to change their diagnosis it was GID (Gender Identity Disorder) due to the differences in brain structure because to extensive harassing from gay lobby groups." Homosexuality is no longer regarded as a mental illness by the scientific community. It is not even a 'disorder' but a sexual behaviour which is different from that practiced by the majority. The precise causes are yet unknown, but it seems the brains of male homosexuals are similar to female brains in some areas. No disease, no disorder: a small brain difference. 6) "On the religious front regarding homosexuality (regarding Abrahamic traditions based on verses in the Bible and Koran) is deemed a sin and also frowned upon as it attackers traditional family values and social order and well being." I wouldn't touch that with a ten-foot pole. .

mirkokick on "There finally is a cure!"

mirkokick — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 20:41:07 +0100

Interesting post. I would have like to see that debate in it's entirety. But i find your animal argument to be a red-herring. Animals don't have any accountability and most of the human population don't want to adopt animal traits or their lower pursuits. If someone wants to act like an animal go right ahead, but don''t expect everyone else to. Furthermore homosexuality has always been a condition that remains minimal among humans and animals, otherwise the species could die out due to a lack of procreation. Now, back to the main issue at hand. A pole provided by the Gazette in 2006 demonstrated that almost 90% of the families asked, including homosexual, prefer to have and live in a traditional family given the choice. Furthermore a stable family is the birthright of any child. Marriage is about children. This is one of the reasons why altering the definition of marriage, the erosion of morality and the insertion of gay material for our children to read is deemed abhorrent by the majority of countries around the world. Furthermore examine exactly how many states or countries went so far as to allow their definition of marriage to be altered. It is so few you can count them on your hand. Yet gays understand that their campaign for "equal rights" hopes to erase the distinction between gay and straight. An ever growing concern among Western nations with moral relapses, dwindling birth rates and social delimas are is the question: will ours be a heterosexual society that tolerates a 4% gay minority or will it be a homosexual society that tolerates a 96% straight majority. If the straights in some western areas don't establish the norms, gay activists will. When gays demand "equality" they are demanding that one model fit all. They are saying we are the same, when in fact we are not. Actually the Pentagon issued a diagnosis that homosexuality was a mental illness. Remember that? Chinese doctors today still hold this diagnosis and has not succumbed to political lobbying on the issue. We have to examine science subjectively and for what it is without all the political baggage that goes along with it. There is a clear and well known difference in hypothalmic structure between heterosexual and homosexual men. This is well known. http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/conten.../253/5023/1034 http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/conten.../253/5023/1034 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1399847/posts Also read any research by the Pease scientists, you can pick up a book at your local book store. Have you ever spoken to a biologist? Sheesh. Finally there is a expert from Wikipedia that shows the extensive gay lobbying forced WHO and other researchers to withdraw the diagnosis of a mental illness: "Homosexuality is no longer regarded as a mental illness by the scientific community. In 1973 the American Psychiatric Association (APA) removed homosexuality as a disorder from the Sexual Deviancy section of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, the DSM-II.[92] The World Health Organization's ICD-9 (1977) listed homosexuality as a mental illness, and in 1990, a resolution was adopted to remove it in the ICD-10 (1993).[93] The ICD-10 added ego-dystonic sexual orientation to the list, which refers to people who want to change their gender identities or sexual orientation because of a psychological or behavioral disorder.(ICD-10 F66.1) Some organizations, including the United States Department of Defense[94] and those who believe in reparative therapy do not accept the mainstream medical position". The world health organization had to change their diagnosis it was GID (Gender Identity Disorder) due to the differences in brain structure because to extensive harasing from gay lobby groups. Now, it must be a disorder because if everyone were gay we would die out as a species. It is a 'gender identity disorder' to be exact. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity_disorder On the religious front regarding homosexuality (regarding Abrahamic traditions based on verses in the Bible and Koran) is deemed a sin and also frowned upon as it attackers traditional family values and social order and well being.

Robert_15 on "There finally is a cure!"

Robert_15 — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 15:01:04 +0100

mirkokick, As mentioned previously, I have already expressed my opinion as a scientist about homosexuality, however, in view of your backward ideas on the subject, I feel compelled to intervene again. Here is what I wrote in Post 165, mailed on 2007-04-01:

Quote:

Homosexuality is a natural sexual behavior, practiced regularly by humans and animals. Humans have done it since times immemorial ( Egyptians did it, Romans did it, Arabs did it) without any sense of guilt or shame until Monotheistic Religions started labeling homosexuality an abomination because it doesn't have as prime purpose the begetting of children to increase the ranks of the faithful. Can you think of any other reason? Animals do it regularly: Bonobos, Hyenas, and particularly the bisons: Are they un-natural?

Homosexuality is not a sickness which should be cured, but a facet of the spectrum of normal human sexuality. It is true that some homosexuals behave in an outrageous way to increase their visibility, but then, what about heterosexuals and the Carnival of Rio? As for AIDS, if it is true the disease started in homosexuals, in some places (eg Africa) it is now more frequent in promiscuous heterosexuals who then infect their wives and children. Ah, Marriage, the ultimate frontier. According to Wikipedia

Quote:

A marriage is an interpersonal relationship with governmental, social, or religious recognition, usually intimate and sexual, and often created as a contract. The most frequently occurring form of marriage unites a man and a woman as husband and wife.[1][2] Other forms of marriage also exist; for example, polygamy, in which a person takes more than one spouse, is common in many societies.[3] Beginning in 2001, the legal concept of marriage has been expanded to include same-sex marriage in some jurisdictions.

Since homosexuals by definition are normal individuals and, in a society, are subjected to duties, they should also enjoy the some rights as heterosexuals. I rest my case.

Brendan 2 on "There finally is a cure!"

Brendan 2 — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 13:17:36 +0100

You are conflating the issue. You have said that you feel 'naturally feel compassionate toward other human beings' and so you 'don't like to see people suffer.' I pointed out that gay people do not suffer by and large any more than most, except from the stigmatisation you are in fact applying to them. They wish to get married and live normally in fact, not alter their sexual preference. Gay marriage is already legal in many countries in fact, so what ‘mainstream view’ are you speaking of? Although I am not sure what curricula you are talking about either, I am sure there is a desire to prevent children being taught whatever garbage it is you have been taught. Yours is a radical point of view, and by no means 'main stream' unless you live in a fundamentalist religious state. I am afraid I cannot respect your point of view in return.

mirkokick on "There finally is a cure!"

mirkokick — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 03:45:13 +0100

I totally respect your opinion. No, I have never been to a gay event. But its funny you say my mainstream view is radical. Most of the gays you see parading with cut out butt cheeks and who are trying to alter the definition of marriage are far more radical than me. Most of the world certainty doesn't accept the alteration of the definition of marriage or the gay lobby groups who try to insert gay material in the school curriculum for my children to read. And for good reason.

Brendan 2 on "There finally is a cure!"

Brendan 2 — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 02:50:20 +0100

Well that is a radical point of view. I suspect religion must be involved as well somehow, but that's just a hunch. I have many homosexual friends, lifelong friends in fact, and most would tell you that the only real difficulty they have had in their lives is dealing with the perceptions of people like yourself. Have you not seen a gay pride event? I would suggest that you re-read the article you posted, which is interesting, and re-think your conclusions. In my experience with homosexuals, there is nothing needing a cure; but there is an awful lot that many bigoted and narrow-minded people need to learn and accept.

mirkokick on "There finally is a cure!"

mirkokick — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 02:30:36 +0100

For homosexuality of course. Regarding why I want to cure them, i naturally feel compassionate toward other human beings and don't like to see people suffer. The incidences for suicide among homosexuals is much higher than for heterosexuals. Homosexuals, due to their disorder are also susceptible to higher instances of sexually transmitted diseases per capita and unfortunately tear families apart. I would not wish something like that on anyone. Just as I would not wish a physical or mental deformity on anyone. Alas we are all subject to Murphy's law: what can go wrong with the human mind/body will go wrong. But in the 21th century people are living longer and healthier than ever before. For example now in Canada 1 in every 7 people are senior citizens. This is a wonderful reality where quality of life is improved.

Robert_15 on "There finally is a cure!"

Robert_15 — Mon, 16 Jul 2007 14:40:11 +0100

I find very interesting although rehashed ( Robert_15 Posts: 786 Registered: 03-Jun-2006, Re: Getting back to what I perceive ... We have already discussed at length the topic of homosexuality in this ...) the notion of a biological ie natural cause for homosexuality. However, together with Brendan 2, I wonder why mirkokick wants to cure them.

Brendan 2 on "There finally is a cure!"

Brendan 2 — Mon, 16 Jul 2007 03:59:17 +0100

Cure for what exactly?

There finally is a cure!,

mirkokick — Fri, 13 Jul 2007 22:50:52 +0100

Gay sheep unlock the answers regarding biological basis. http://www.hedweb.com/animimag/gaysheep.html http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn3008 Homosexuality is biological, suggests gay sheep study A study of gay sheep appears to confirm the controversial suggestion that there is a biological basis for sexual preference. The work shows that rams that prefer male sexual partners had small but distinct differences in a part of the brain called the hypothalamus, when compared with rams that preferred to mate with ewes. Kay Larkin and colleagues from Oregon Health and Science University found the difference was in a particular region of the hypothalamus - the preoptic nucleus. The region is generally almost twice as large in rams as in ewes. But in gay rams its size was almost identical to that in "straight" females. Read the rest of this post...