open Democracy News Analysis - What is Britishness? Citizenship, Values and Identity, - Comments

Robert on "What is Britishness? Citizenship, Values and Identity"

Robert — Sat, 26 Apr 2008 19:09:50 +0100

The English have only rediscovered their identity

because the Scots, the Welsh and the Northern

Irish have explained it to them.

It was not so long ago that the English flew the

Union flag at football matches and talked about

having English passports, the English Royal

family and English money.

Many Scots and Welsh regarded this intellectual

laziness in and ignorance of the constitutional

structure of this country ( the UK to those who

are still asleep ) as reflecting a dismissive

attitude to the Union and the smaller nations.

With devolution the English finally became aware that Scotland, Wales and Cornwall were not just eccentric parts of Greater England. And that English dominance of the UK and the economy were not acceptable.

Armed with this knowledge they now tell us that

they regard themselves as English and not

British. So what has changed?

Before they called themselves English or British

because they thought it was the same thing.

Now they call themselves English.

They only tolerated the constitutional and

economic arrangements of the Union because it benefited them. The southeast economy was developed whilst the rest of England, Scotland and Wales were allowed to rot. And now they complain that these areas are a burden!

The establishment of an English Parliament that allowed for real federal equality would be excellent.

The establishment of an English Parliament whose only goal is to concentrate power back into hands of the few in the south east and London would be a complete disaster.

Toque on "What is Britishness? Citizenship, Values and Identity"

Toque — Sat, 26 Apr 2008 00:25:50 +0100

Britishness is the combination of Englishness, Scottishness and Welshness.

You can call off the search party.

David on "What is Britishness? Citizenship, Values and Identity"

David — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 23:01:45 +0100

Really interesting and well argued paper; but, I'm bound to say, a tad predictable. Almost everything that's wrong about legacy Britishness - as opposed to David Beetham's new 'progressive Britishness' - is, err, English:white ethnic supremacism (by implication or association, an English / Anglo-Saxon trait, not 'Celtic')

public schools and the whole class system they reinforce: culturally and, for the large part, socially an English phenomenon

the 'Anglo-Saxon' model of trade and the market economy

the monarchy: in popular terms, largely viewed as an English phenomenon (QE II being referred to as 'the Queen of England', rather than the 'Queen of Great Britain / the UK'); indeed, the monarchy being the apogee of the English class system

protestantism: for this, read the established Church (i.e. the Church of England), from which flows the 'privileged' place enjoyed by Christianity in the 'formal public sphere' as exemplified by faith schools (how does this differ from religion playing a part in 'civic society'?) and, indeed, the continuing symbolic status of 'this country' (well, at least England) as a Christian country. Ethnic diversity is fine; but 'Christian England', it appears, has to bow out of the picture to facilitate that. But actually, isn't 'protestantism' more associated with Calvinist Scotland and non-conformist Wales than the 'broad church' of the C of E? But you're not suggesting Scotland and Wales abandon their Christian traditions and the profound role protestant Christianity continues to play in schools and communities throughout those countries, particularly the rural areas, I suppose

Europhobia: again, more a conservative Middle-England or populist English Sun-reader type of thing, as it's the English that most fear having their identity, culture and traditions eroded by a federal EU (and understandably so); the Scots and Welsh, on the other hand, see the EU as their escape ticket from dependence on a supposedly English-dominated UK.

So there you have it: the enduring obstacle to a progressive Britishness and a multi-ethnic / trans-national 'British Citizen Nationality' is essentially England and Englishness. To create this new 21st-century Britishness, you just have to do away with the last vestiges of the primary Englishness of the old Britishness - better still, just ignore England and Englishness as a meaningful part of the debate or of Britain's future altogether.

You won't get English people re-engaged in politics and civic society until the old unrepresentative British institutions are replaced by new English ones; such as an English parliament along the lines of those in Scotland and Wales, for starters.

To me, your prescription sounds rather urban-liberal middle-class elitist. You won't get very far unless you engage the (majority white) English working class and conservative Middle England in redefining and reappropriating what participatory citizenship might mean for them, too. But maybe that's the problem: perhaps the England they might want would be rather different than your progressive New Britain.

David, aka Britology Watch

What is Britishness? Citizenship, Values and Identity,

OurKingdom — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 17:44:20 +0100

Article: This paper was discussed at the Rowntree's seminar on governance which Stuart Weir reports on above.

David Beetham (Manchester, Democratic Audit): One of Gordon Brown's first acts after becoming Prime Minister in 2007 was to publish a Green Paper with Jack Straw, The Governance of Britain, outlining a "new constitutional settlement" which would "forge a new relationship between government and citizen." Part 4 of this paper, entitled "Britain's future: the citizen and the state," was focused on a set of concerns about what it means to be British, what are the distinctive British values, and what rights and responsibilities people should have as citizens, all of which were argued to be unclear or confused and in need of greater clarification. So, for example, we read: "The Government believes that a clearer definition of citizenship would give people a better sense of their British identity in a globalised world" (sec. 185). "A clearer understanding of the common core of rights and responsibilities that go with British citizenship will help build our sense of shared identity and social cohesion" (193). "It is important to be clearer about what it means to be British, what it means to be part of British society and, crucially, to be resolute in making the point that what comes with that is a set of values which have not just to be shared but also accepted" (195).

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