open Democracy News Analysis - Welsh finance commission to work with Calman, Tom Griffin - Comments

Stonemason on "Welsh finance commission to work with Calman"

Stonemason — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 13:55:34 +0000

I would answer but as in Law, I prefer to see the witness, then I might offer evidence, obfuscation would be my first offering of evidence.

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Not logged in — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 12:01:16 +0000

".. you to may be concerned for democracy. "

In what way are Plaid Cymru's aims undemocratic? You may not agree with the dissolution of the union but Plaid Cymru has always argued its case through constitutional means.

Stonemason on "Welsh finance commission to work with Calman"

Stonemason — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 11:35:21 +0000

Anon 10:57 .........that's comforting, the "tail not being able to wag parliament".

But when you visit the Wild West of Wales and listen to the aspirations of this minority (Plaid Cymru) you to may be concerned for democracy.

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Not logged in — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 11:34:54 +0000

The recently published Encyclopaedia of Wales concludes its entry on the Principality thus:

“Until ... 1536 Wales was divided between Principality and March. Thereafter insofar as the name ‘Principality’ had any meaning … it was believed to embrace the whole of Wales.”

The Laws in Wales Act of 1536, whereby Wales was fully shired, removed the distinction between the Principality and the March of Wales but no ‘all-Wales’ principality was created.

Wales has since emerged as statutorily distinct from England. Wales (I believe) is defined as the 13 counties created between 1285 and 1536.

If anyone can come up with a statutory or legal definition for a Welsh Principality I’d like to hear it!

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Not logged in — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 10:57:15 +0000

"A second point, since when does the Welsh Assembly tail wag Parliament, ..."

That's extremely unlikely to happen. Any conclusions by the Commission would have to be presented to and scrutinised by Parliament – and the ultimate decision lies with the Treasury.

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Not logged in — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 19:45:31 +0000

The Principality of Wales only comprises the Western half of the country, the former lands of the Marcher Lordships and the Lordship of Glamorgan are not in the Principality

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Not logged in — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 17:58:43 +0000

As far as I know, constitutionally, it is still a principality of the Kingdom of England (now united with Scotland), as Cornwall is still a Duchy.

However these outdated constitutional arangements should most certainly be given over to the public in each territory for them to decide their futures.

Stonemason on "Welsh finance commission to work with Calman"

Stonemason — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 17:51:52 +0000

Never mind the semantics of the use of "principality" when discussing Wales, you should be concerned about the appointment of people who have such strong personal links with the assembly, that a predisposition to an existing proposition is probably a guarantee of a new begging bowl to fund massive spending by shopoholic politicians.

A second point, since when does the Welsh Assembly tail wag Parliament, Plaid Cymru is up to its separatist
tricks in the principality.

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Not logged in — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 14:48:21 +0000

Minor point - isn't it time people stopped using that constitutionally meaningless phrase 'the principality' when referring to Wales?

Welsh finance commission to work with Calman, Tom Griffin

Tom Griffin — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 14:18:10 +0000

Tom Griffin (London, The Green Ribbon): The Welsh Assembly Government marked the first anniversary of the Labour-Plaid Cymru One Wales Agreement today by announcing new details of the Commision that will look at the principality's tax and spending arrangements.

The Commission will look at Wales' spending allocation under the Barnett Formula in its first phase, before moving on to consider tax-varying and borrowing powers.

The Commission will be a small expert panel. It is expected to begin work in September and report back to Ministers with an interim report on Phase 1 of the work by the summer of 2009. The interim report would be published and debated in the Assembly prior to undertaking more detailed work towards the end of the year.

It is expected that the Commission’s work will run in parallel with the Calman Commission in Scotland and that both Commissions would be able to liaise over their respective work programmes and, where relevant and appropriate, share research papers.

The Commission will be chaired by Aberdare-born economist and fund manager Gerald Holtham. His colleagues will be appointed in September.