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 <title>open Democracy News Analysis - Neither local, nor government, Andrew Blick  - Comments</title>
 <link>http://www.opendemocracy.net/blog/ourkingdom-theme/andrew-blick/2008/07/12/neither-local-nor-government</link>
 <description>Comments for &quot;Neither local, nor government, Andrew Blick &quot;</description>
 <language>en</language>
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 <title>The Cornish Democrat on &quot;Neither local, nor government&quot;</title>
 <link>http://www.opendemocracy.net/blog/ourkingdom-theme/andrew-blick/2008/07/12/neither-local-nor-government#comment-464492</link>
 <description>&lt;div&gt;
&amp;quot;another participant noted that there had been no &amp;#39;howls of protest&amp;#39; at the progressive removal of powers from town halls to Whitehall over the last four decades&amp;quot;
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Where do these people keep their heads? Did they not notice a petition of 50,000 signatures calling for devolution to a Cornish assembly ie the return of powers to an elected Cornish body of governance? Who was this person and how can I contact them?
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&lt;a href=&quot;http://thecornishdemocrat.blogspot.com/&quot;&gt;The Cornish Democrat&lt;/a&gt;
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 <pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 08:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
 <dc:creator>The Cornish Democrat</dc:creator>
 <guid isPermaLink="false">comment 464492 at http://www.opendemocracy.net</guid>
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 <title>Not logged in on &quot;Neither local, nor government&quot;</title>
 <link>http://www.opendemocracy.net/blog/ourkingdom-theme/andrew-blick/2008/07/12/neither-local-nor-government#comment-464028</link>
 <description>&lt;p&gt;From Keith McBurney&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Peter,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Citizens&#039; Conventions need not be just about the local which is all politics, however vitally important that is.&lt;br /&gt;
The Council Tax is not hated because it is Tax, but because what was once paid centrally has been &#039;devolved&#039; steathily. So now we pick up the tab for public servants pensions too: fire, police and the town hall incumbents. But this responsibility to collect is not matched by authority to set or gather locally. That is taxation without representation.&lt;br /&gt;
One hopes Unlock Democracy&#039;s Sustainability Bill will be a first foot in the door that prises it forever open. We should encourage and support our councillors to that end, especially as inflation is not uniform and costs vary across the unleavened playing field.&lt;br /&gt;
But there are wider issues that Citizens&#039; Conventions can address. EG what political relationships we would prefer to have at community, intermediate and our nations&#039; levels at home with our neighbours and abroad with our near neighbours. In short, a bottom up, decentralised view from where it is at with the people, by the people, for the people. No &#039;government&#039; however federal or confederal can do this, only we the people can. Trust us, not they who do not in faithless representation.&lt;br /&gt;
Nor do we need their stamp of authority to do so. We are, after all, sovereign - individually and severally. Without us there is nothing. With us there is something. Their way is the state we are in. Our way is what we might prefer to bring about instead.&lt;br /&gt;
Time to cut short their gestated grazing on our grass; it is too longwinded.&lt;br /&gt;
Aye Ours&lt;br /&gt;
Keith&lt;br /&gt;
Frae Fife &amp;amp; Yorkshire&lt;/p&gt;
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 <pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 22:24:24 +0000</pubDate>
 <dc:creator>Not logged in</dc:creator>
 <guid isPermaLink="false">comment 464028 at http://www.opendemocracy.net</guid>
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 <title>padav on &quot;Neither local, nor government&quot;</title>
 <link>http://www.opendemocracy.net/blog/ourkingdom-theme/andrew-blick/2008/07/12/neither-local-nor-government#comment-464004</link>
 <description>&lt;p&gt;
Thanks for this timely article Andrew
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Leaving aside the issues of internal constitutional protocols referred to in your article, the lack of public interest shown in local government stands as a metpahor for the overtly centralised nature of UK governance.
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Local government is seen as a inconsequential sideshow to the main event in Westminster. Turnout for local government elections reflect a general awareness of this self-evident truth.
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1. Local government budgets are (approx) 75% funded from the central (Whitehall controlled) exchequer
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2. Local councils have no direct control of the setting of business rates.
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3. Local councils are mandated, by Westminster legislation, to provide certain minimum standards of service (funded from local budgets).
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What&amp;#39;s actually left over for locally elected representatives to prioritise? Not a lot!
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Electorates aren&amp;#39;t daft so why bother voting for someone who doesn&amp;#39;t actually control/manage anything of substance?
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Illustrating this point usually brings forth a response along the lines of &amp;quot;local government representatives are a bunch of incompetent rogues so I don&amp;#39;t want them in charge of anything important, i.e. public funds, anyway&amp;quot;, which misses the point completely.
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This rationale only highlights the link between accountability and financial autonomy - unless local councils are actually responsible (as far as is practical) for raising the revenues required to fund their competencies, they will never develop a meaningful sense of affinity from their respective electorates.
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Yet Westminster jealously reserves revenue raising powers to itself. This firmly established constitutional principle feeds into the English Parliament debate.
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Anyone with a modicum of common sense understands that changing the name over the door at Westminster from United Kingdom to England will achieve nothing in terms delivering real dispersal of political power.
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The maxim is: &amp;quot;We (at the centre) will effectively control policy because we hold the purse strings&amp;quot;. Establishing an English Parliament would not change that cultural mindset, hence my not unfounded fears conerning the rationale driving the English Nationalist community.
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This vital factor is why campaign groups like Unlock Democracy have profound difficulty in accepting the concept of an English Parliament as a credible vehicle capable of fostering effective decentralisation; I (and I know my viewpoint is not isolated within Unlock Democracy), quite simply do not believe an English Parliament can deliver on that front.
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That&amp;#39;s why Unlock Democracy supports the concept of allowing individual localities to determine (to a far greater extent than at present) their own destinies. That&amp;#39;s why Unlock Democracy advances the idea of establishing a Citizens&amp;#39; Convention as a formal mechanism capable of giving voice to these aspirations, rather than drowning them out in a populist rush towards an English Parliament.
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Peter Davidson, Alderley Edge, NW.England
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</description>
 <pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 12:05:24 +0000</pubDate>
 <dc:creator>padav</dc:creator>
 <guid isPermaLink="false">comment 464004 at http://www.opendemocracy.net</guid>
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 <title>Neither local, nor government, Andrew Blick </title>
 <link>http://www.opendemocracy.net/blog/ourkingdom-theme/andrew-blick/2008/07/12/neither-local-nor-government</link>
 <description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Andrew Blick (London, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.democraticaudit.com/&quot;&gt;Democratic Audit&lt;/a&gt;): &lt;/strong&gt;Is there a &amp;#39;mental Berlin Wall&amp;#39; that separates unease about democratic issues such as &amp;#39;executive dominance of Parliament, the unreformed House of Lords, the obsolete parliamentary election system, 42 days and the data-base state&amp;#39; from concern over the existence of &amp;#39;local government that is neither &amp;quot;local&amp;quot; nor &amp;quot;government.&amp;quot;&amp;#39;?
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&lt;p&gt;
That at any rate is the view of Stuart Weir, Director of Democratic Audit, who led the discussion at Wednesday&amp;#39;s CAOS (Combining All Our Strengths) seminar for civil society organisations.  Stuart described  domination by Whitehall managerialism, a complexity of structures and the financial and constitutional weakness of local government to ask, &amp;quot;Is democratic accountability at local level possible?  Is there space for genuine participation, and if so, is it confined to a very low level at which government is willing to tolerate ordinary people getting involved?&amp;#39; 
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&lt;p&gt;
As it happens, the seminar coincided with a white paper on community engagement that illustrates how uneasy Whitehall is about any ideas that might break the managerial mould.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
Confirming the view of apathy around local government, another participant noted that there had been no &amp;#39;howls of protest&amp;#39; at the progressive removal of powers from town halls to Whitehall over the last four decades, while supposed transfers from the UK to Brussels are perpetually controversial. There were suggestions that local government could be linked to the broader democratic reform agenda through the introduction of local-level bills of rights or a right to participate.
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&lt;p&gt;
During the course of discussion the existence of another &amp;#39;Berlin wall&amp;#39; became apparent, one that divided those present at the meeting. On the one side there were a group I might ungenerously describe as the local government policy wonks; on the other the &amp;#39;naïve&amp;#39; democrats.
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The basis of their disagreement was as follows. Under the new arrangements for local government introduced in 2000, most councils are led by cabinets, with all other councillors, who once made decisions collectively, being relegated to the level of backbenchers, responsible for scrutinising policy but rarely for deciding it.
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One participant in the seminar complained how, even if a particular decision taken by the cabinet (in this instance, the closing of libraries) was voted against by a majority of councillors at a council meeting, it could not be reversed as this sort of decision was delegated to the cabinet. The only way of reversing the decision was through the &amp;#39;nuclear option&amp;#39; of a vote of no-confidence, which would lead to the establishment of a new cabinet with the same excessive authority.  In other words, local authority cabinets have an ability to dominate elected assemblies that even our notably powerful national-level executive lacks in relation to Parliament.
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If MPs vote against a measure, be it a war, a treaty or a law, it would be impossible, either on practical political or formal legal grounds, for a government to proceed with it. Why should backbench councillors enjoy less powers than backbench Westminster MPs?
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&lt;p&gt;
It was over this issue that the fissure between the wonks and the democrats opened. The wonks not only didn&amp;#39;t think there was a problem, but they apparently couldn&amp;#39;t see why anyone else could think there was one. Rather than a democratic deficit they saw an issue of political decision-making. If councillors felt strongly enough about something, then they would pass a vote of no-confidence.
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I side with the democrats - who were appalled by this state of affairs - here. We were told at the seminar how councillors are now being advised that they need not turn up to any meeting other than the ones that elect the executive and set the rate. In times of low turnout and participation in local politics, what incentive is provided to either vote or run for a council if the body being elected is so weak? This is a fundamental issue, which alongside that of the dominace of edicts from Whitehall over local government, is more important than any of those fully addressed in the new white paper.
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 <comments>http://www.opendemocracy.net/blog/ourkingdom-theme/andrew-blick/2008/07/12/neither-local-nor-government#comment</comments>
 <category domain="http://www.opendemocracy.net/themes/ourkingdom-theme">OurKingdom-theme</category>
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 <category domain="http://www.opendemocracy.net/taxonomy/term/411">Andrew Blick</category>
 <category domain="http://www.opendemocracy.net/ok-tags/democracy">Democracy</category>
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 <pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 00:44:43 +0000</pubDate>
 <dc:creator>Andrew Blick</dc:creator>
 <guid isPermaLink="false">45405 at http://www.opendemocracy.net</guid>
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