open Democracy News Analysis - story - Comments

JCBosma on "Israel’s “new history” and the Palestinians"

JCBosma — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 21:30:40 +0000

It's not silly, it's true. This is the justification the Arab League gave for the intervention in Palestine in 1948:

Quote:

10. Now that the British mandate over Palestine has come to an end, without there being a legitimate constitutional authority in the country, which would safeguard the maintenance of security and respect for law and which would protect the lives and properties of the inhabitants, the Governments of the Arab States declare the following:

First: That the rule of Palestine should revert to its inhabitants, in accordance with the provisions of the Covenant of the League of Nations and [the Charter] of the United Nations and that [the Palestinians] should alone have the right to determine their future.

Second: Security and order in Palestine have become disrupted. The Zionist aggression resulted in the exodus of more than a quarter of a million of its Arab inhabitants from their homes and in their taking refuge in the neighbouring Arab countries.

....

...the Governments of the Arab States have found themselves compelled to intervene in Palestine solely in order to help its inhabitants restore peace and security and the rule of justice and law to their country, and in order to prevent bloodshed.

(http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/arab_invasion.html)

The Arab aim was not an ethnic cleansing of Jews from Palestine, nor inflicting a genocide, nor driving the Jewish inhabitants into the sea. These charges have been made up by Zionists in order to legitimise their war of conquest and expulsion. During 1948 "Arab agression" became the first article of faith of Zionism. The function of this believe is to legitimise taking land from the Palestinians, expelling them, and blocking their return. Next to "making Palestine Jewish" Zionists also aspire to be moral superhumans. Of course, this can only be achieved simultaneously by fooling oneself with this kind of dubious legitimisations.

The Arab aim was to give Palestine to its inhabitants. That's why they didn't want a Jewish state. This has nothing to do with racism, but everything with the rights of the Palestinians according to the Covenant of the League of Nations and the United Nations Charter.

Not logged in on "The algebra of revolution"

Not logged in — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 12:03:44 +0000

Компания LuxDecor предлагает межкомнатные перегородки раздвижные, компьютерный стол и шкафы купе на заказ в Москве недорого. На интернет ресурсе нашей фирмы представлены фотографии шкафов купе нашего производства.

sagarika on "India’s primary duty"

sagarika — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 08:09:12 +0000

And surely there is something wrong with Chinese society with its aggressive horrible and regular upheavals like the Red Guards, with the UK for having mercilessly impoverished countries by theft and colonization, with Canada, Norway, France and Russia which depend on killing people with arms sales,, etc.

What is required is not lamenting about what is wrong 'with Indian society'. We need good ideas for action and change, less criticism and more action.

Re Indian education, just about every successful Indian abroad did all his/her basic education including the first degree and was admired for his/her knowledge and ability to learn and do things.

What we really need is excellent birth control to bring the population down and to export good people worldwide to countries that can use young settlers to support their economies.

I am sick of Indians, usually privileged, venting for publication. I see you are a teacher and appreciate that. I know that no other country has managed to create a middle class of 350 mill which can afford most things in 50 years without major wars, genocide or exploitation of other countries.

If we had but birth control as a major social policy! No, this has to be done not by the govt which will then be accused of every ill but by society, by the media, by schools, by art, by employers, by unions, by religion.

Michael Brenner on "Israel’s “new history” and the Palestinians"

Michael Brenner — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 03:10:35 +0000

"It is a fact that the Arab states justified their attack by referring to the 250.000+ refugees that the Zionists had already created by 14 May. Morally, the attack of the Arab states was comparable to the attack of NATO on Serbia when it tried to ethnically cleanse Kosovo."

What silliness. If you believe that the Arabs attacked Israel in 1948 because of the refugee issue, I have a bridge to sell you. The Arabs attacked israel because they did not want a non-Arab state in the Middle East. They were unequivocal in declaring their opposition and unambiguous about what they would do if anyone tried to bring a Jewish state into being, even if it was one with a large Arab minority.

"It is a pity that the Zionists won and succeeded with their conquest of Palestinian land and expulsion of the Palestinians."

Yes, what a pity that the Arabs were not permitted to perpetrate another holocaust in service of making the Middle East ethnically pure.

NYCartist on "Claude Lévi-Strauss at 100: echo of the future "

NYCartist — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 21:05:23 +0000

Yes, Letat's comment is satire and really good. I could stretch it to absurd by reminding folks of the advert "You don't have to be Jewish to love Levy's" (rye bread). (Lenny Bruce was my favorite "comedian".)

Tony Curzon Price on "Claude Lévi-Strauss at 100: echo of the future "

Tony Curzon Price — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 20:20:18 +0000

it has to be recognised that there is nothing like a pair of Levi's for a spot of bricolage

tony

Shrapnel on "Russia’s drugs problem: blame the West"

Shrapnel — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:43:46 +0000

Stupid authoritarian Russian officials just don't get it. Their insistence on criminalizing normal human activity is utterly counter-productive, just like the nonsensical prohibition in the rest of the world. There can be no control until all drugs are re-legalized, and addiction is treated as a public health matter.

This is blindingly obvious to anyone who looks at this subject with an open mind. To the goons who run the police forces every problem looks like a nail, because only hammer wielders are allowed to influence the response. And, of course, all that drug money flowing into the back pockets of the chief moralizers makes it impossible for them to be honest about this matter - even to themselves.

Were it not for the untold misery created by the drug war, this farce would be hilarious.

tia66m on "Claude Lévi-Strauss at 100: echo of the future "

tia66m — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:30:36 +0000

hahaha. This is the funniest series of comments ever!!!

Canny: Nadejda Letat was clearly being facetious in response to willment1973's comment, who may or may not have been trying to be funny too.

Poor Claude L-S. Even in death, the infamous 501s continue to haunt him.

JCBosma on "Israel’s “new history” and the Palestinians"

JCBosma — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 14:30:02 +0000

Maybe there are some Palestinians who believe that there was no Jewish temple where now is the Haram al Sharif, but this is only a marginal opinion. Certainly the Palestinians do not need this to legitimise their struggle.

The injustices done to the Palestinians by Zionism are not "revealed truth", but reality. 150 years ago they lived peacefully in their country. Then came the Zionists that claimed that country for the Jewish people. Then, after 1948, the Palestinians found themselves thrown out of a large part of their country. Of course the Palestinians resisted; they did not react in any way strange to the attempts of another people to colonize their country. They have every right to resist this. The injustices done to them are not "revealed truth" but reality.

Michael. on "1989: moment, legacy, future "

Michael. — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 13:08:57 +0000

How sad it is reading sophist rhetoric of the events of 1989.

The truth is, all that happened was a rotten-to-the-core totalitarian system inevitably failed in the manner forecast by many in the decade after the Bolshevik Revolution - prime amongst them, Leon Trotsky.

Now that system is gone the eternal dispute is still there. No amount of Western capitalist propaganda can change it. Capitalism is also a rotten-to-the-core system that will inevitably fail. How many more depressions and slumps are required before the zeitgeist reaches a mature understanding of this reality?

The only question is whether the minority perpetrators of capitalism will stand aside peacefully as history catches up with them too.

habesor on "Israel’s “new history” and the Palestinians"

habesor — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 05:31:56 +0000

JCBosma,

I think that your response is a perfect example of the flaws inherent in a study of history driven by partisan or ideological views. In your opinion the Palestinians are true believers of their own case therefore there is no necessity, psychological or otherwise, to question the revealed truth as it has been handed down to them. I would suggest that at this stage the Palestinians need new historians even more than do the Israelis. And it seems that a bit of critical analysis of Palestinian national myths might do you some good as well. For instance, the Palestinian national myth currently includes the notion that no Jewish Temple ever stood on the Temple Mount. What psychological need of the Palestinians (and perhaps you as well) leads to such a distorted view of history?

JCBosma on "Israel’s “new history” and the Palestinians"

JCBosma — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 00:17:41 +0000

As Shlaim writes, the battle between "old" and "new" historians is a battle about the moral interpretation of history. In this battle the "new" historians are not on the side that is guided by its believe in Zionism's superior morality. The "new" historians are the more critical ones. The "old" historians let themselves guide by their believe in Zionism's moral superiority, and they are the ones that promote an ideological view. (by the way, Benny Morris, although he is a "new" historian, still advocates an ideoligically distorted view of history).

Zionism was and is constantly working to construct an image of reality according to which it is always acting moral. Zionists tell themselves that they are constantly defending themselves, but their "defense" leads to nationalist goals like conquest and expulsion. Apparently, they don't find it moral to conquer and expel because of their nationalist ideals (Zionists believe that all of Palestine belongs to the Jewish people), so they legitimise their acts and policies in other (dubious) ways. As a result of this, it is not surprising that the "old" Zionist historiography is severely distorted. Even Benny Morris's work is distorted in a zionist way.

On the Palestinian side there is no such thing. Almost all Palestinians agree that they have a right to resist Israel and the Zionists, who conquered much of their land and expelled many of them in 1948, occupied the remaining part in 1967, and are since then slowly but surely conquering this with their settlements. Unlike the Zionists, the Palestinians don't feel a psychological need to deny their real motivation. Consequently there is not such a psychological need that requires them to create a distorted image of history, and their view of history is much less distorted. They don't need "new" historians.

JCBosma on "Israel’s “new history” and the Palestinians"

JCBosma — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 23:53:53 +0000

Mr. Brenner, you are wrong that Arab Legion invaded Israel. It did not. Except for the old town of Jerusalem and the Gush Etzion (which was harrassing Arab transport) the Arab Legion only defended itself against Zionist attacks. Ben-Gurion ordered an attack on the Legion in Latrun for three times. He was trying to conquer land that was assigned to the Palestinian state.

It is a fact that the Arab states justified their attack by referring to the 250.000+ refugees that the Zionists had already created by 14 May. Morally, the attack of the Arab states was comparable to the attack of NATO on Serbia when it tried to ethnically cleanse Kosovo.

It is a pity that the Zionists won and succeeded with their conquest of Palestinian land and expulsion of the Palestinians.

JCBosma on "Israel’s “new history” and the Palestinians"

JCBosma — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 23:45:26 +0000

As you tell it is like the Zionists like to see it. This is however a constructed image of reality designed to satisfy the need of Zionists to see themselves as morally superior. It is a fact that there was a Zionist plan that meant the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians. It is a fact that most Palestinians fled because they were attacked by Zionist forces. It is a fact that the Arab states justified their attack by referring to the 250.000+ refugees that the zionists had already created by 14 May. Morally, the attack of the Arab states was comparable to the attack of NATO on Serbia when it tried to ethnically cleanse Kosovo. It is a pity that the zionists won the war. Had the Arabs won (and the Zionists abandoned their nationalist ambitions) the two peoples could have lived peacefully together, like Jews and christians have lived peacefully in Arab countries for centuries.

Robert H. Stiver on "International law is key"

Robert H. Stiver — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:04:07 +0000

I must re-read Mr. Bahour with great care, but there is no question: his essay is OUTSTANDING! The logic and observations he makes are unassailable. We, supporters of the full legitimate rights of the Palestinians, grounded in international law, need to break the paradigm of accommodation and impunity: we need, for example, to bring Mr. Bahour's "International law is key" before the President of the UN General Assembly and forcefully request that he wrest control of the discourse and action surrounding the endless torment of the global Palestinian community away from those who have not an iota of interest in addressing the torment. WE MUST RESOLVE THIS STAIN ON HUMANITY BEFORE IT FESTERS ANY FURTHER!