open Democracy News Analysis - the middle east - Comments

Unimpressed on "Home truths in the Muslim family"

Unimpressed — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 05:51:28 +0000

Curb your enthusiasm, aspacia, RobPC is a bigoted moron high on the rubbish from hate sites like jihadwatch.Quoting verses in isolation from the Quran without any context is the standard tactic employed by these charlatans. Ethanll speaks of "honor killing"(claims its a Muslim thing, so care to explain why Hindus, Sikhs, Jains do it as well) yet denies that far far more women are murdered in his "civilized" culture on a daily basis. These childish cut and paste tactics only highlight the dishonest nature of western propagandists. Westerners with their primitive thinking process still cannot fathom that men and women are NOT the same, equality before the sight of God is not measured by some pathetic cretins inability to understand gender roles in the physical world. This is the reason western culture is inferior and in a downward spiral. No true culture, no family unit, no respect for the elderly, or compassion for the young. Is it any wonder that the most wretched inhuman ideologies originate from Europe? I think not!
Lets be brutally honest, if the Judeo-Christian cabal are not killing you with their bombs they send you a barrage of pompous intellectual dissertations, essentially informing you how to interpret your religion, your history and your culture, and that you are basically an animal and should be vanquished. Muslims have simply got to understand that these monsters have a plan. The plan is not only to murder, massacre and slaughter Muslims but degrade, humiliate and insult them and their religion, take over their countries, divide up their land, sell off their oil and resources and stoke up ethnic and religious hatred to keep the natives fighting and killing each other, while these beasts look happily on from well fortified turrets in 'Green Zones'. These filthy bloodthirsty hypocrites spent 50 years clamoring to bring the wall down in Germany and yet have eagerly built walls in Mexico, in Palestinian lands and now Iraq. They openly support each other’s viciously racist agenda. I wonder if succeeding generation of Muslims will be as complacent as their parents and turn the other cheek and grin and bear these outrages and this monsterously evil Judeo-Christian plan, which by the way has been termed by the Americans as the ‘New World Order’. One day this will all come back to haunt them.
Muslims are not like Westerners, crazy for power, whose motive is to dominate everybody else and who are very bad losers!
Islam is not about power. The West just CANNOT get that. It hurts to admit it - because of its blindness to its own manic obsession with power.
I liked the explanation given by the Edward Gibbon in the 18th Century for the unstoppable spread of Islam - its "moral authority".
I wonder where those Iraqi WMDs are....

Unimpressed on "Home truths in the Muslim family"

Unimpressed — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 05:42:54 +0000

Curb your enthusiasm, aspacia, RobPC is a bigoted moron high on the rubbish from hate sites like jihadwatch.Quoting verses in isolation from the Quran without any context is the standard tactic employed by these charlatans. These childish cut and paste tactics only highlight the dishonest nature of western propagandists. Westerners with their primitive thinking process still cannot fathom that men and women are NOT the same, equality before the sight of God is not measured by some pathetic cretins inability to understand gender roles. This is the reason western culture is inferior and in a downward spiral. No true culture, no family unit, no respect for the elderly, or compassion for the young. Is it any wonder that the most wretched inhuman ideologies originate from Europe? I think not!
Lets be brutally honest, if the Judeo-Christian cabal are not killing you with their bombs they send you a barrage of pompous intellectual dissertations, essentially informing you how to interpret your religion, your history and your culture, and that you are basically an animal and should be vanquished. Muslims have simply got to understand that these monsters have a plan. The plan is not only to murder, massacre and slaughter Muslims but degrade, humiliate and insult them and their religion, take over their countries, divide up their land, sell off their oil and resources and stoke up ethnic and religious hatred to keep the natives fighting and killing each other, while these beasts look happily on from well fortified turrets in 'Green Zones'. These filthy bloodthirsty hypocrites spent 50 years clamoring to bring the wall down in Germany and yet have eagerly built walls in Mexico, in Palestinian lands and now Iraq. They openly support each other’s viciously racist agenda. I wonder if succeeding generation of Muslims will be as complacent as their parents and turn the other cheek and grin and bear these outrages and this monsterously evil Judeo-Christian plan, which by the way has been termed by the Americans as the ‘New World Order’. One day this will all come back to haunt them.
Muslims are not like Westerners, crazy for power, whose motive is to dominate everybody else and who are very bad losers!
Islam is not about power. The West just CANNOT get that. It hurts to admit it - because of its blindness to its own manic obsession with power.
I liked the explanation given by the Edward Gibbon in the 18th Century for the unstoppable spread of Islam - its "moral authority".

Najwa on "Women choosing to be"

Najwa — Fri, 04 Sep 2009 23:24:57 +0000

What proves that Hamas is also respecting people's will and rights is the fact that they came to power through a fair election, monitored locally, regionally and internationally. They won the election democratically, but the International community wants someone who could say YES SIR YES SIR... and that is not HAMAS!. So Rana whatever you try to show them, they will not recognize it or see it with regard to the strategic role of women in the society. I think, the best way is to go ahead. and achieve advancement and hopefully freedom and recognition.... The train has to move and the dogs can bark...

EmSalem on "Women choosing to be"

EmSalem — Tue, 18 Aug 2009 21:10:21 +0000

Rana ,,you made me proud having a friend like you , I think you are a newborn writer for upcoming glorious future.,,, Good step Rana,, wish u the best and wait the next,,,, Good luck

Julianna on "Damascus: on the road to peace?"

Julianna — Sun, 16 Aug 2009 17:38:25 +0000

This is an informative and thorough article. I had no idea all these plans to better the American-Syrian relations were going on. It's great. Well written, thanks.

JCBosma on "How Do We Cope?"

JCBosma — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:03:57 +0000

Read Jimmy Carter's article "an unnecesarry war" (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/07/AR2009010702645.html). It was not Hamas that did not want to stop the rockets in return for Israel opening the borders. It was Israel that did not want to open the borders in order to stop the rockets.

Zionists believe that the Gaza war was about stopping Hamas's rockets. In reality the war was not necesarry to stop the rockets. It was only necesarry to stop the rockets while at the same time keeping the borders closed (... and keeping the pressure on Hamas, ... and doing no concessions to the Palestinians).

Adria Arafat on "Women choosing to be"

Adria Arafat — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 15:36:26 +0000

Masha'allah, you have really written a nice article. I do wish you well with what ever you do. May Allah protect you and your family.
Adria

Michael T Sager on "How Do We Cope?"

Michael T Sager — Sun, 31 May 2009 08:48:27 +0000

They are being asked by the international community to:

accept that Israel should exist

accept the proposed swap of Palestinean prisoners for Gilad

stop attacking Isarel with rockets - which they have basically done anyway since the Gaza war

then Israel and Egypt will open the borders, 4 billion dollars of aid will come in and other good things

This is a clear example of a population being held hostage by ideologically driven fanatics - and no one seems prepared to stand up against them.

michaelcalder on "The Left and Hamas"

michaelcalder — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 15:39:04 +0000

Applause.

Clear skies!

Steve Radford on "The Left and Hamas"

Steve Radford — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 01:27:54 +0000

Normal
0

Ms Rosa-Rosso (Red Rose; what a great name - is it real?) does herself
and her readers a disservice with this poorly thought-out and sloppily
researched article.

The European "Left" is not a homogenous or monolithic bloc whose
policies, actions and thought-processes can be summed up in a few sentences or
paragraphs. Some of the alleged actions of supposed leftists (eg. the alleged participation of Die Linke in a pro-Israeli demonstration in Germany) might
well bring harsh criticism from other leftists - and Die LInke is, in any case, a coalition which includes people fro a wide variety of political ideologies and traditions. Attacking the ideological and
political weakness and vaccilation of some European leftists (though I suspect
she includes Social Democrats under this heading) is very often justifiable,
but Ms Rosa-Rosso makes many sweeping allegations against the Left in general
with fairly flimsy supporting evidence.

In many years of regular contact with leftist writers and activists I can
honestly say I have never heard any of them talking about the "Invisible
Hand" - this phrase is only ever heard from the pro-capitalist right
wing (which in the UK includes the Labour Party).

The difficulty which the left has with Hamas is (as I have pointed out on a related discussion) that it is essentially a Clerical Fascist political party. It is also, to a large extent, a deliberate creation of the Israeli state which has promoted it and used it to undermine and divide the secular Palestinian liberation movements for reasons which those familar with the issue will understand very well.

Israel does not seek a negotiated peace with the Palestinians, it seeks victory. Therefore Israel has manipulated a situation whereby a substantial part of the Palestinians are led (or ruled), either by corrupt and compromised puppets (as on the West Bank under the discredited rump of Fatah), or by religious parties who use the same delusional and biblical language as religious zionists (which of course alienates them from secular supporters in Europe).

Hamas is an elected leadership and therefopre must be recognmised and dealt with, but it is not a leadership with which progressive or leftist groups (all secular) can comfortably ally with or support. Solidarity with the people (inmates) of Gaza is one thing, but how can leftists solidarise with a political party who would repress and crush (with the utmost violence) everything they stand for? Allying with the forces of the Islamist Revolution in Iran cost the left dearly (and cost many of them their lives - remember the televised confession and political retraction, almost certainly extracted by threats and torture, by the Tudeh Party Secretary before he was executed).

Ms Rosa-Rosso is quite right to castigate much of the left (especially the Labour and Trade Union Movement) for its miserably inadequate response to racist mass-murder and long-term injustice in Palestine, but she has gone way off the mark with her flawed, and frankly incoherent, analysis in this article. Digging up examples of racist language from the archives of the Belgian CP might be interesting from a historical point of view but it does not say much about current attitudes towards Palestine. I don't know what kind of "leftists" this author mixes with but it is difficult to believe that she has talked to a wide range of people from across the genuine European Left (a term which does not include those who describe themselves, usually erroneously, as "Centre-Left" - who are often economically neo-liberal as well as pro-zionist). Her frequent (and apparently approving) quotes from Gilad Atzmon also undermine her credibility as this commentator has been drifting off in some strange directions and has been denounced by some of the UK's leading leftist anti-zionists for his anti-semitic rants.

Let's discuss the European Left's response to Hamas with a bit more thoughtfulness than this article brings to bear.

Steve Radford.

r.augman on "The Left and Hamas"

r.augman — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 19:24:03 +0000

Abu,

You're conflating two things, an emancipatory project with a genocidal one. Have you read Hamas' charter? Did you notice that they cite from The Protocols of the Elders of Zion? Did you notice the referenes to "vanquishing the jews"? Their insistence that it is every Muslims' responsibility to kill jews? Did you conveniently skip over those parts, or do you think their genocidal agitation is legitimate?

Abu Rashid on "The Left and Hamas"

Abu Rashid — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 00:35:59 +0000

r.augman,

Hamas' desire to destroy Israel and it's war against the Jews, both
proclaimed in the group's own charter, combined with their continued
targeting of Israeli civilians with rockets

-----

I'm sure if Eskimoes had mass illegally immigrated into Palestine in the earlier part of the 20th. century instead of Jews, then Eskimoes would be the ones listed in Hamas' charter, not Jews. Although you and others would like to try and invalidate the Palestinians legitimate struggle to remove the Zionist occupation from their land, by slipping it into the "anti-Semitic" bag, in reality it's got nothing to do with it at all.

r.augman on "The Left and Hamas"

r.augman — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 20:57:27 +0000

You're mixing things up when you say that "support for the people of Gaza (does) not (exist) at the political level," simply because we don't support Hamas and Hezbollah. These groups represent no political solution for the palestinians, but rather continued war and misery.

Yes, Hamas was elected. So what? Do you ascribe to Bush's definition of "democracy"? Hamas' desire to destroy Israel and it's war against the Jews, both proclaimed in the group's own charter, combined with their continued targeting of Israeli civilians with rockets, has only meant the deterioration of material situation and the social standing internationally of Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank.

There is absolutely no problem with people chanting in Arabic or any language they choose. The content is what's at stake. And when demonstrators chant, "Hamas, Hamas, Jews to the Gas" (as they did in Amsterdam at a "pro-Palestine" demo, or "Die, Die Israel!" as they do often in Germany, then these agitators for anti-Jewish violence are absolute enemies of the Left.

Your attempt to make this out to be an issue over religion is wrong. There are tons of religious people involved in social movements (liberation theology in latin america, Christian peace activists in the U.S., Jewish progressive groups, Muslim feminists, etc.). The issue is about politics not religion.

Additionally you make the typical mistake of seeing the left as being anti-imperialist. It isn't. It is silent about Iranian or Syrian imperial interests to take just two examples.

The Left is disempowered and your call to line up with anyone who "opposes imperialism" is just a desperate attempt at feeling important in face of a dire political and social situation. But lining up with reactionaries who seek emancipation for religion, but not emancipation for people, is absolutely the wrong direction.

If you think Hamas rockets targeting civilians help to liberate the Palestinians, you are deluding yourself. It only intensifies the military conflict that has already taken enough Palestinian lives. Hamas is only putting Gazans at more risk by its cynical lobbing of rockets at Israelis.

And the constant quoting of an Israeli (Gilad Atzmon) doesn't make your case any stronger. Yeah, he supports Hamas' imperial and genocidal interests in "liberating the land." What's at stake is the liberation of people, not that of religion or land.

Also, the small faction of the Left party that joined the demo against Hamas terror did not do so out of "fear of being associated with terrorism." They do it out of political principle. Of objecting to a form of violence against civilians which has no political aim other than maintaining the political power of Hamas, and the only result of destroying Gazans chances of improving their situation.

You want to fight the misuse of the terrorism category. Fight the green scare in the U.S., where the state is locking people up who destroyed nothing other than construction sites for suburban housing development projects and the like, and harmed no people.

And finally you end by telling us to support "the resistance" as if the world is a black and white picture between good and evil, as if "resistance" is a homogenous thing. Please expect more intelligence out of your readers than that.

michaelcalder on "The Left and Hamas"

michaelcalder — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:08:11 +0000

The problem with much of the Left is that so much of its dogmatic base is as irrational, as faith-based, and as tribal, as the religions which most of the early Left instinctively shrank from.

The problem with Islamist movements, as much as Leftist movements (and Rightist ones, for that matter) is their demand for adherence to, compliance with, and respect of, their dogmatic beliefs without the slightest element of a rational basis.

This is the reason why so many people ignore politics; they instinctively devine that the politicians are talking so much bullfeathers with no connection to reality, and so discount everything they hear and, so far as is possible, carry on their lives without bothering to interact with the political world. As long, of course, as there is food on their plates and the latest reality show on the television. (Panem et circenses, anyone?)

As an apolitical secularist, i can only applaud them. I only wish they would go further in ignoring their politicians, and follow the lead of the Rochdale pioneers, and the thousands of Frenchmen who to this day run their local co-operatives, and build mutualist municipalities separate from the corporate or nation state; so long as they do not dogmatically follow all the prescriptions of Proudhon. Pragmatism, and maybe even a little syndicalism, perhaps.

As for respect, no.

I accept anyone's right to believe, and express in words, pictures, and other representations (but not necessarily in action) anything they wish.

That acceptance is not even conditional on reciprocation, but I refuse to respect anyone who does not fully reciprocate, and I refuse to respect the irrational.

Clear skies!

Abu Rashid on "The Left and Hamas"

Abu Rashid — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 01:22:50 +0000

You might be amongst a minority for now Nadine, but your position is a natural one that will continue to gain ground amongst the Left.

The disdain amongst Letists for Islamist movements is a consequence of the fact most of the anti-Imperialist movements in the Muslim world were once socialist/communist/anarchist. They lost ground to the Islamic ideology and this is probably what causes a lot of the resentment.

But as you say, they need to recognise that this is the choice of the peoples they are claiming to support, in their resistance. So they should respect that choice and work with it.