open Democracy News Analysis - rise of the new right - Comments

rosolino on "Berlusconi’s scandal, Italy’s tragedy "

rosolino — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 12:56:53 +0100

In this great article there is just a little mistake when it quotes Giuliano Ferrara.
The critical date is July 25 1943 (not July 24), when Mussolini was overthrown by the Gran Consiglio del Fascimo (Fascism High Council) and then had to resign.

Arrivederci!

trimmerb1234 on "Berlusconi’s scandal, Italy’s tragedy "

trimmerb1234 — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 21:31:36 +0100

Geof Andrews gives an overview and update but missing is any insight into the minds of those who seem to consistently re-elect Berlusconi. What do they say? Why do they vote for him? Do they care about Italy's reputation or is the rest of Europe wrong and Italy right? Do they dread dullness in politicians? Does he get them to support him against their better judgement? Do his policies negatively affect some who even so still vote for him? The views of those who abhor him is a side issue when a majority keeps voting him in.

Tony Leavy on "Berlusconi’s scandal, Italy’s tragedy "

Tony Leavy — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 20:21:47 +0100

To me this article, among many, demonstrates the fact that Italy is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. Because he is in control of almost all of the Italian media Italy's prime minister seems to be able to get away with such things as changing the law to prevent his being charged with corruption.

By casting himself as an 'international statesman', while at the same time indulging in very public sleaze, Berlusconi is treating his fellow citizens with contempt. To say the least this reflects very badly on all Italians. The fact that they put up with it makes them complicit in the corruption of Italian society. The whole think stinks.

erodiade on "Italy’s creeping fascism"

erodiade — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 21:49:21 +0000

The author of this article notes: "Italy, however, is different. The country is at present dominated by intolerant public discourses and veering towards authoritarian solutions;"

Italy has always been dominated by intolerant public discourses having at its core a false hypocritical morality (that of Italy as a country dominated by the Vatican and by the lobbies system). It is not at all new. It is in fact the oldest attitude of the Italian State.

Italy disregards science and civil rights for the sake of these sterile, inert discourses around morality.

elettra verrone on "Italy’s creeping fascism"

elettra verrone — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 16:58:41 +0000

Sadly, this is true.
I totally agree with this view.
I am surprised how international observers have this poor knowledge of italian internal dynamics.
Their constant label of 'fascism' sounds extremely banal for an italian reader who is aware of the italian parties system.
Fascism is different from a kind of populism we can find in Italy.
And then: what a Pope is supposed to say? Unplug her? Obviously he follows his duty to preserve church's dogmas and its conservative principles. People are free to disagree, though.
i.e.: oscar luigi scalfaro the saviour of the constitutional guarantees? there is something they are missing, I guess.
We have a terrible press, useless political analysis and even a very flat contribution from our neighbours.
Looking at the positive side, a lot of room for improvement.

Facchetti on "Italy’s creeping fascism"

Facchetti — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 11:29:49 +0000

If the problem with British politics is that the class debate is so hard-wired a third party cannot emerge, then the problem with British commentary of the Italian reality is that the "fascist" paradigm is so hard-wired in the observer's eye that commentaries often fail to look past it to a far more interesting reality.

I for one have become intolerant to the journalistic automatisms that tag every right-wing phenomenon in Italy as "fascist", or "proto-fascist" or "incipiently fascist"? Perhaps if writers were not so obsessed with drawing easy historical parallels, this word would have not become so traduced over time.

Why are Italy's institutions so muddled and weak? Why is Italy's opposition such an incompetent disaster (Berlusconi could not have ordered a more useless opponent than Veltroni had he truly been as all-powerful as his bald predecessor)? What real impact are the nation's criminal underworld and its religious overlord having on the likelihood that change might ever emerge. Address these questions first, please, before you turn to the popular memes.

Today's political rhetoric in Italy can at times be coarse, populist and some times even violent. But all this could be said of the Britain I live in.

Ironically, the very figure of Berlusconi, his path to politics via the media and his remarkable political instincts make parallels with a certain fascist leader of yesteryear very tempting. But what makes the Berlusconi phenomenon so remarkable is that he has achieved his coup in broad daylight and without the violent political ruptures of Italy's fascist past. He may be a toad, but he's their beloved toad.

Some observers have a problem accepting the choice of electorates in other countries. With Italy, part of the problem, may lie with the romantic preconceptions some observers have of the place, even though it has always been seminally corrupt and only modestly democratic at best. If national chauvinism has found its voice today (heck, some Italians even sing the national anthem again), it is because for too long the centre-left dampened it with its cries of "fascists" & "papists" and Berlusconi's "gift" has been to remove the lid from the pot of political correctness.

If it's OK for the tabloids abroad to tap into their countries' national fears over immigration, then why should it not be fine for Forza Italia to do it too, he reckoned.

Another problem is that Italy understands itself so poorly because its own mirror -- the media -- is so very muddied. The rot begins with the laws that govern the media, the allocation of channels by party, the uneven distribution of bandwidth for radio and tv broadcasting, the corrupt system of subsidies for the press (La Casta dei Giornali) as well as the eccentric Register of Journalists that truly does date back to the days of the Duce and defines who can benefit from this vast system of political patronage.

Please, please analyse all of this first. Then, and only then, will you have the right, if your findings permit, to use the "F" word again.

jjj on "Italy’s creeping fascism"

jjj — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 03:50:53 +0000

Sir,

Why do you consider the criticism of Mr Obama's liberal views on abortion by the Pope (or by any other Catholic, for that matter) to be "controversial"?

Sorry, but what exactly is "controversial" in simply re-stating one of the basic principles of the Catholic social teaching, shared by one billion Catholics around the world?

enrico gonzales on "Italy’s creeping fascism"

enrico gonzales — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 16:42:14 +0000

Lecce 22-2-‘09
Geoff Andrews’ “Italy creeping fascism”is an interesting picture of nowadays Italy.
I’d like to add some more points because I feel my country is going trough quite a difficult time.
I feel there is a serious gap between what plain ethic suggests about the boundaries between public and private: it has been blurred by an arrongant elite.
Politicians, intellectuals, artists almost very single day point out the twisted manner in which the elite manage public life: to no avail! The public seems content to hear the background noise and act otherwise.
The global financial crisis is coming home: factories shut down, job losses in two digits and so on. The future is seriously threatened: our children are going to pay for it.
The sad fact is that this state of affairs is the result of our own choice: out of the ballot box Berlusconi&company came!
I may be old fashioned yet I do believe in participation, democracy. Another world, another Italy is in the making, perhaps silently, perhaps not shown on primetime, nevertheless is there alongside with all those who are marginalised by the powerful.

Enrico Gonzales

Dear Geoff on "Italy’s creeping fascism"

Dear Geoff — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 00:36:42 +0000

Dear Geoff,

I remember this controversy very well. Without trying to defend anyone, I think it is important to note, that Cardinal Ratzinger was actually citing Paul Feyerabend's comment on the Church's position in the Galilei affair.

However, thanks for your clarification and your changes in the article.

Mathias Bauer

Geoff Andrews on "Italy’s creeping fascism"

Geoff Andrews — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 16:36:00 +0000

Dear Mathias,

I was referring to the Pope's earlier comment endorsing the Vatican's decision to imprison Galileo which led to a dignified protest by scientists at Sapienza University and to him withdrawing from his intended public lecture there. The subsequent demonstration in his defence by leading members of Italy's political class revealed, in my view, the enduring capacity of the Vatican to exercise power through political channels in Italy.

Geoff Andrews

Mathias Bauer on "Italy’s creeping fascism"

Mathias Bauer — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 00:44:00 +0000

"the reaffirmation at Rome's Sapienza University in January 2008 that the Vatican was correct in imprisoning Galileo in 1633"
that's simply not correct, please read the lecture the pope wanted to give at Sapienza University:
http://www.zenit.org/article-21526?l=english

[Mathias, You are quite right; the text has been slightly amended to take account of your correction and to add the link you have kindly included]

Ignazio on "Italy’s creeping fascism"

Ignazio — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 14:54:29 +0000

While I agree with most of your analysis, I feel that the fear of creeping fascism is a bit exaggerated. Yes, Italian politicians are in between arrogant and dumb, and the church has a lot more influence than advisable, but this time it didn't work. To worry about how easily the government put together such a deplorable... mmm what's the word for it... carnival? is legitimate, but at least this time the couldn't manage to get what they wanted, and Berlusconi squabbling about how he was blocked in his quest to save a life is honestly just fun. Had that guy been a comedian, he would have made more money than he has now. This should be counted as a point for the sane minded portion of Italy (yes it exists, even if it's not easy to say so looking at our "honourables").

Jim on "Austria’s democratic wound"

Jim — Sat, 04 Oct 2008 12:54:08 +0100

The artcle misses the fact behind the behaviour in Austria. After living in Vienna for 5 years I came to understand that the Austrians were never "punished" in any way for their acts in WW II. They escaped all of this under the umbrella of Russian occupancy and then came out of the closet as if nothing had happened. Contrast this with what happened in Germany, their new constitution and place in global assistance.

Cas Mudde on "Austria’s democratic wound"

Cas Mudde — Sat, 04 Oct 2008 02:06:30 +0100

As always a great analysis Anton, but you miss one of the most striking aspects of this victory: the complementary roles the FPO and BZO play. The FPO clearly went after disappointed SPO-voters, among others in its "Social not Socialist" campaign, and indeed won the bulk of its voters from SPO. The BZO has from the outset presented itself as a more moderate alternative for the FPO (where, allegedly, all the extremists were) AND as a more radical alternative for the OVP. Again, this worked, as BZO won the bulk of its voters from OVP, not SPO.

Hence, FPO and BZO are not only different in the regional bases of their support, but also in class and party background. This makes the challenge to the major parties even bigger than before, when they were challenged by only one FPO, as both parties are competing with different radical right parties!