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BigC on "The Word of No God"

BigC — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:45:34 +0100

Abdulksaida

I wasn't supporting France generally - just on the matter of outward expressions of religion. You'll know from other posts that I am solidly against the apartheid state of Israel - especially as it is a state with an official religion and discriminates against Muslims, Christians and others.

With regard to rich and poor, what I'm saying is that religious hierarchies tend to replicate and legitimate the secular hierarchies of feudal times.

I don't doubt that your prophet said that he wanted to be with poor in paradise. He may even have believed it. It doesn't alter the fact that his and other religions not only sanction terrible inequality but even advocate taking up arms against those who attempt to change it - eg Afghanistan in the 1980s.

Joe.Bloggs on "The Word of No God"

Joe.Bloggs — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 09:27:33 +0100

I think BC was trying to say that religion (not just Islam, but Judaism and Christianity too) are set up in the same way as dictatorships - only a few people profit at the expense of the many poor.

This seems stupid, as what god would want his people to suffer? If you prayed when you were supposed to, did everything your religion asked, but still suffered anyway, how is this fair when there are others of the same religion living in luxury? Shouldn't they be sharing that if they were 'of true faith'?

As for someone saying they don't mind being in paradise with everyone else after death, it seems like lip service as noone can prove that there will be a paradise anyway. Funny that he didn't opt to be with the poor and worthless while he was still in this life.

abdulksaida on "The Word of No God"

abdulksaida — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 06:29:38 +0100

Big C

as i can understand your statements, you want to say that only rich people or relegious peoples as popes, mullas, and rabbists are only in need of God (Allah) to take benefits and reach the high hirarchy in this life and that is incorrect.

God is not only for them and any person in power or more rich , he or she will be more subjected to be asked for everything and if u dont know that poor people will enter paradize so quickly before rich people untill those people would be asked about their wealth and what they did with it or how they collect it and if they give to poor and many things wich i cant explain it all now

also our prophet mohamed was choosen from God ( Allah ) to be a king with all power and money or prohethood wich is much more difficult and he choose the other.

also prophet mohamed (pbuh) asked God to be in paradize with the poor people in this life and whom suffer more and he didnt pray to be with whom have power and money with no morals or just , and beleive me more money and more power needs much caution and it is not always good if u really believe in God unless u will apply his rules which is difficult as a humanbeing is greedy and wants more and more money and he collect them unlawfully in the eyes of relegion and not secular or materialistic measures.

abdulksaida on "The Word of No God"

abdulksaida — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 06:16:18 +0100

Big c

you prefer france style way , it is not accepted when they forbid headscarves from entering universities as that will increase the counter reaction and will lead more womens angry and try to go back more to thier relegion.

always to be dectatorship is not good.

also if france is serious , so how come they support israel as sarkozi is a close friend of israel and the whole state was established on a relegion faith of the choosen people in the world and God as they claim promised them of the holy land and to steal the palestinians land. They have not to be hypocrates.

Joe.Bloggs on "The Word of No God"

Joe.Bloggs — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 03:19:03 +0100

Don't worry, I didn't think I was being accused.

I didn't mind the idea when the French tried to bring in the law about no religious symbols (crucifixes, headdress, etc) in public, but I'm sure I didn't get the whole story at the time.

I'm quite surprised that noone besides yourself and abdulksaida have posted here. I thought I would get some kind of reaction from the others who are here regularly...

BigC on "The Word of No God"

BigC — Sun, 22 Jun 2008 19:04:23 +0100

Joe Blogs wrote:

Quote:

Now, referring to your post in 'Word of No God', I'm not islamophobic by any means - the only thing I'm scared of is Dementia ;-) - but I don't like the idea of marriage between state and religion, mainly because of the implications that religion can bring with it.

I wasn't accusing you Joe. It's a christian thing mostly. You've only got to look at some of the posts from some of the faux conservatives on this site.

I completely agree with you about links between state and religion. Unfortunately it is embedded in the British constitution and certainly has a de facto presence in countries where it is explicitly not the case like the US . I'd favour the French model I think.

BigC on "The Word of No God"

BigC — Sat, 21 Jun 2008 19:57:56 +0100

Abdulksaida

Quote:

Yes because God is all powerful, and he asked us to worship him as he created us from first and he gave us this favour ,

Do you not think that it is the other way around? God has in fact been created by people to replicate the power relationships in the material world and thus legitimate and justify them. Thus royalty and aristocracy simply become part of the hierarchy of worth with God at the top and scum like myself at the bottom. Such a hierarchy would of course have a privileged position for popes, priests, rabbis and mullahs alongside the kings and princes. A God of this sort would obviously require worship - because this justifies the exalted position of his or her representatives on earth.

All three branches of the Abrahamic faith state that God made man in his image. In fact men (or rather powerful men) made God in their image.

Joe.Bloggs on "The Word of No God"

Joe.Bloggs — Sat, 21 Jun 2008 16:24:03 +0100

If god created us all, then he would have created us all no matter what - with imperfections too, like no common sense. Why would someone want to worship a god that created him with cerebral palsey, or any other disease? And if god is the creator of everything, why don't i see all other living things worshipping him?

No, I don't know everything and I do make mistakes - but it's up to our parents to raise us correctly, and instil the required knowledge in us to avoid more mistakes, god doesn't do this for me.

If Islam isn't frightened of other religions, why is there an Islamic Republic who denies the holocaust happened and believes the US is the enemy of their religion? Why is there even an Islamic Republic - why not be a secular state if Islam isn't afraid?

Can you also explain how Islam has the answers for everything?

Yes, the US was formed after bloodshed - are you saying that you like the US, and that they are a strong nation because of that bloodshed? You don't need religion to bring unity, all you need is a common goal. In countries recently it has been Democracy that has done that, or a need to escape from tyranny. People unite to try and save the whales, but I'm sure they wouldn't do any better if religion was the motivator ;-)

abdulksaida on "The Word of No God"

abdulksaida — Sat, 21 Jun 2008 09:22:02 +0100

you said " Religion has hurt others, even those of the same faith" and u give example of hizbullah. I dont know about blood shet between them eventhough if that happened not all in one group are correct and may be some incorrect things happened and each one will be subject to court in this life or after that and that doesnt mean all the group is incorrect or the relegion is bad becasue some people misinterpret it .

As adult , you can differentiate alone and we are personally alone responsible for our bad acts and that is common sense also. Our problems that all of us generalize things .

You know also USA formed after a blood shed between all states and then united and i dont mean iam with blood shed, it is totally wrong. Is that also common sense and they didnt use relegion for that unity.

i will answers other things later

abdulksaida on "The Word of No God"

abdulksaida — Sat, 21 Jun 2008 09:00:55 +0100

islamphobia

Barak OBama apologized for 2 muslims girls as one of them is a lawyer and is eyptian wearing headscarf and wants to take photos with him.

The arrangers prohibited them from taking shots with him as they dont want the media to show that barak obama is from muslim roots. I dont know how these things will make the president free even to be himself and not others and how come they will be honest, so you will not find the perfect man for the perfect job anymore.

Even though islam is not frieghtened of any relegion in the word and have answers to everthing , but the reverse in not true and democracy now is not well represented in US election. Really strange and i cant understand .

abdulksaida on "The Word of No God"

abdulksaida — Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:52:08 +0100

joe bloggs

Yes because God is all powerful, and he asked us to worship him as he created us from first and he gave us this favour , so we have to obey him as we can , as a mean of thankful to him and also to get good grades as he asked and the worship will give benefit to us and others in this life , so why not doing it ? As u said you do right things as it is common sense , you have to be thankful to God who provide u with this common sense , others they dont have and have to struggle. Besides of course Allah (God ) wants us to proove what we say, we cant only say by words that we beleive in God and then we quit from our obligation to that God. Believers have to struggle more than disbeleiver to gain paradize and entering paradize needs much good work and good thinking of Allah (Good).

In addition not always common sense as you think is correct , i mean if you dont beleive in him , so he will let u to your mind and dont tell me that u r perfect and can know everything correct or not correct, only God knows , so God will help more who asked for him and who pray much to him by doing good deeds while remembering him and that is also common sense. How come God reward people whom hates him and dont obey his rules? Yes God is merciful and also can punish at the same time for bad deeds and hurting others.

Joe.Bloggs on "The Word of No God"

Joe.Bloggs — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 03:49:29 +0100

Unfortunately I haven't read much regarding anti-semitism in the early 20th century, but I have heard enough to know it wasn't pretty. Considering that these three religions are worshipping the same god, why are they so hell bent on wiping each other out because of differences in interpretation? It's been going on for thousands of years and at the moment doesn't look to be stopping any time soon.

People here are sheep. They're ok until something happens, then someone with a big mouth will stand up and everyone seems to follow - good ol' pack mentality. Unfortunately the one with the big mouth isn't usually the brightest of crayons.

BigC on "The Word of No God"

BigC — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 20:54:39 +0100

Joe

Quote:

but the bible in the hands of someone with a fundamentalist
interpretation means their children could grow up hating Jews, because
of the idea that 'they killed jesus'.

It doesn't even need fundamentalism Joe. The lie that the Jews killed Jesus (they didn't, the Romans did), is so embedded in Christian culture that there was never any problem finding enough people to take part in the brutal pogroms against them - including the mechanised one we now call the holocaust.

We are seeing similar hatred now emerging amongst ordinary Chistians for Moslems: Islamaphobia bears scary similarities to pre war anti-semitism. Again, it may be cheer-led by fundamentalists but it's the general laity who are chorusing the hatred - albeit in a low key way.

eric_5 on "The Word of No God"

eric_5 — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:21:19 +0100

Eric5 trying to be clever, said Hitler was a Roman Catholic. He was born into that faith but rejected it

How can you reject baptism? Religion is not a matter of intellectual conviction. It's a matter of birth and magical induction rites.

Joe.Bloggs on "The Word of No God"

Joe.Bloggs — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:16:44 +0100

So now you're saying that praying and worship is like a race, and that the most worthy 'win' their way into heaven? Seriously, if your god was so all-powerful, why would he care whether you worshipped him or not?

Religion has hurt others, even those of the same faith. I refer to my last posts in the 'Iran is not the enemy' thread, where a high profile muslim admits that much blood was shed during the formation of Hezbollah - not that of Israelis, but that of other muslims while Hezbollah fought it's own people and palestinians in order to extend its influence. As Hezbollah is supposed to be THE shia representative in Lebanon, and also the representative for the Islamic Republic, why must they kill their own people in order to gain power? How does that demonstrate good religious values?? As they worship the same god as you, are you able to enlighten us as to their thought process?

The same goes for those in certain Christian faiths where child abuse goes on unchecked. What in god's name is good and holy about that??

I don't know about you, but I don't obey rules because of the fear of what will happen if I'm caught, I simply do the right thing because it's common sense. Can you explain to me why it is a good idea to believe in something which hasn't been proven? I can understand the desire to try and prove something, but if I can live my life in a good and reasonable way and that the only thing different between me and you is that I do not worship but you do, then how am I any worse when it comes to 'judgement time'? Because I didn't pray five times a day or grow a beard? It does seem very silly.

Having said that, a belief in a god isn't a bad thing, my problem is with the interpretation: A bible in my hands means that my kids will grow up knowing about the biblical happenings, and with a sense of right and wrong, but the bible in the hands of someone with a fundamentalist interpretation means their children could grow up hating Jews, because of the idea that 'they killed jesus'. I'm not trying to be a smart-arse here, I actually know people with that mentality. It's scary.