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Alex Buchan on "Conservatives 'comfortable' with Scottish independence?"

Alex Buchan — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 22:26:00 +0100

Tom, neither O’Neill’s nor your explanation rings true.

Dealing with O’Neill first. The two options can be seen as setting out the two poles between which Tory candidate’s opinions are likely to be found. Both contain ambiguities. ‘At all cost’ could imply acting with violence, as O’Neill suggests, but it’s stretching it to say that this would be assumed in the case of an internal political issues in a Western Democracy. The use of the double negative in the second option suggests it could encompass a range of attitudes, from being happy to see the back of Scotland to having only mild regret at it’s leaving. So the question seems to really be asking "in which general direction do you lean?" It’s spinning a unionist line to suggest it amounts to "At all costs [including violence]" yes or no?

Your own suggestion, that it is part of a strategy towards countering Scottish nationalism sounds far too calculating. The fact that most, if not all, of them are likely to be contesting English constituencies suggests that, even if we were to assume a calculating element, the implications of their answers can be seen in an entirely different light. They are far more likely to be reflecting a growing sentiment in England. Any cursory glance at the comments to items on this issue in ConservativeHome will show that readers of that site are split on this issue with the majority prescribing to the position of ‘good riddance’. There may here then be evidence of something going on in the Tory grass-roots. There is certainly an attitude common in journalistic and political circles in London that Scotland is freeloading and I’ve also read that such an attitude is common amongst Cameron’s existing back-bench MPs.

It seems more likely the response to this survey is a genuine reflection of the tension within the Tory party between its traditional support for the union and a growing sense that the union is already broken by the creation of the Scottish Parliament. The lack of a strong unionist message from Cameron and Goldie may be undermining unionist support within the Tory party itself. Defending a union where Scotland is perceived to be feted at England’s expense may not be a policy many feel able to take to the public. The Tory party is increasingly Janus-faced when it comes to Scotland. To appeal in Scotland they are trying to be seen as fully accepting devolution while in England they are more likely to be found citing the iniquity of Labour’s wanton vandalism in relation to the constitution.

Alex Buchan

The Cornish Democrat on "What happens to Labour if the Tories back strong devolution?"

The Cornish Democrat — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 09:39:09 +0100

Quebec? Not to mention the autonomy given to the native american populations in the north. This is regionalism is it not?

The Cornish Democrat

The Cornish Democrat on "What happens to Labour if the Tories back strong devolution?"

The Cornish Democrat — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 09:37:31 +0100

'Anglo-saxon revivalism' is a convenient label for a detractor and perhaps appropriate for the Wessex and Mercian groups individually, but it's not such an honest description of Devolve.

Nevertheless the L.B.Priestley quote, for me, provides the same vibes as Devolve and some of their organic English regionalist friends, but still I really know nothing more about Priestly so I'm probably wrong.

Gareth if and when you obtain an English parliament what will be your next political project? Will you campaign with as much vigor for a decentralised/regionalised England? Power down to the people?

The Cornish Democrat

Toque on "What happens to Labour if the Tories back strong devolution?"

Toque — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 12:56:03 +0100

I don't know if I'll have a next political project.

I most certainly won't be campaigning for a regionalised England, not ever. But if you're asking me what I think about local democracy in England, I think it would be a very good idea. This should be addressed by an English constitutional convention with every bit as much urgency as an English parliament as far as I am concerned.

I'd probably take Canada as the template for good local democracy and civic involvement. They seem to do well what we have lost.

rr2009 on "Northern Ireland: guns, words and publics "

rr2009 — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 12:31:56 +0100

Tony Blair declared in 2006 that a "final settlement" to the political stalemate in Northern Ireland is
within reach and an independent commission
concluded that the IRA was no longer a terrorist threat.

"The IRA has
done what we asked of it," the prime minister said this afternoon.3 yrs have gone now and we're still where he started... chemotherapy

Toque on "What happens to Labour if the Tories back strong devolution?"

Toque — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 10:05:55 +0100

"Are you sure England Devolve isn't your cup of tea Gareth?"

Absolutely sure, thanks. I've met some of them in Birmingham city centre before, and I'm afraid that Anglo-Saxon revivalism just isn't my thing, whether they're Mercians, or the Wessex regionalists where I live now.

Though I can see why an anglo-saxon heptarchy might be appealing to a Dumnonian.

The Cornish Democrat on "What happens to Labour if the Tories back strong devolution?"

The Cornish Democrat — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 08:59:41 +0100

"I thought about patriotism. I wished I had been born early enough to have been called a Little Englander. It was a term of sneering abuse, but I should be delighted to accept it as a description of myself. That little sounds the right note of affection. It is little England I love. And I considered how much I disliked Big Englanders, whom I saw as red-faced, staring, loud-voiced fellows, wanting to go and boss everybody about all over the world, and being surprised and pained and saying ‘Bad show!’ if some blighters refused to fag for them. They are patriots to a man. I wish their patriotism began at home…" - L.B.Priestley

But surely if you take this to its logical conclusion the perfect anti-colonialist little Englander would be someone who loves his historic region above all; Wessex, Yorkshire, Cumbria, Kent.....

Are you sure England Devolve isn't your cup of tea Gareth?

The Cornish Democrat

Alex Buchan on "What happens to Labour if the Tories back strong devolution?"

Alex Buchan — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:31:41 +0100

Thanks for the links. It is amazing, though, that we can count on one hand the number of times the BBC actually reflects the truth rather than playing a part in perpetuating the Anglo-British/Britologist line. It might be relied on in Iran, but the BBC is not a disinterested player back home.

I say Anglo-British/Britologist because I do not see them as greatly different. The Tories say ‘England’ in an almost unconscious at-homeness with the narrative of the golden thread of English history. Labour’s use of Britain when they mean England is, on the other hand, the verbal expression of their core belief in the union and their refusal to accept that the legislation they enacted has undermined that union [Labour in the past has also been just as Anglo-British as the Tories]. But both use obfuscation when it comes to talking about the true nature of the British State. Cameron is as guilty of this as Brown, although he is more skilful.

I don’t think the emergence of a popular English nationalism is welcomed by any of them. It is only pressure from below that has forced them to appear to be responsive. Your own efforts in this regard have been significant. I would be very wary of the Tories. Their natural inclination is to string things along in the hope that a return to Great British uniqueness/greatness wins out against a more normal European national identity politics in England. They are likely to try to co-opt English sporting allegiance and the St George’s Cross flag as new ornaments to add another element to this British uniqueness/greatness.

On the West Lothian question I think they will play it by ear, only acting if they sense there is a head of steam, and then only minimally. I think you’re wrong about the Olympics. The Anglo-Brits are just as keen for it to be a festival of Britishness as the Britologists. The Tories are even more committed to the continuation of greatness than Labour, for them Britain the monarchy and the army are all wrapped up together, at least that’s how it comes across.

I liked the quote from J.B.Priestley. People like him speak of a deeper truth that transcends place even though it is deeply rooted in place.

Alex Buchan

Toque on "What happens to Labour if the Tories back strong devolution?"

Toque — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:55:34 +0100

Perception is everything, and its true that the Anglo-British will, for the most part, be acting in the interests of England. But they do now have to act differently in Scotland and Wales, change their language and points of reference; as you say "devolution queered the pitch".

Traditionally England has had far less cause for complaint against the Union due to England's dominance of that Union. But there are signs that the English are restless. Whether the Anglo-British will have to start 'putting out more flags' to be seen to be more English (as opposed to British), and start speaking of England (as opposed to Britain), are the interesting questions, and how they reconcile English nationalism with Unionism.

We've already see tantalising signs, with the English flag having been spotted fluttering above Downing Street, and on David Cameron's bike, on Jacqui Smith's car, and during Boris Johnson's campaign. The BBC too has started to get wise to the Britologists (see here and here). Control language and you control thought.

The FIFA World Cup will be an interesting test of how far the Anglo-Brits will go in mirroring the populism of Englishness, and if in doing so they help to undermine the popular legitimacy of the British state (which relies far more heavily on English acceptance than it does on Scottish or Welsh).

The Britologists (but not the Anglo-British) will pull out all the stops to ensure that the 2012 Olympics are as passionately British as the World Cup support is passionately English. This really is a very important battle for them, and at the moment it is one that they are losing.

If English MPs start producing websites as nationalistic as David Mundell's then I think it won't be long before we call time on the Union.

The Cornish Democrat on "Localism: the new politics of old"

The Cornish Democrat — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:13:52 +0100

Very interesting.

In the county/duchy/celtic nation (you choose) of Cornwall where 50,000 people signed a petition calling for a devolved assembly and where the nationalists, Mebyon Kernow, recently beat Labour in both the EP and Unitary council elections perhaps the 'localism' advocated by the LGA would go some way to giving Cornish communities what they want.

Perhaps this document from a Cornish MP Andrew George and the Cornish Constitutional Convention would interest (opens pdf):

http://www.cornishassembly.org/CornwallANewBeginning5iii09.pdf

The Cornish Democrat

The Cornish Democrat on "What happens to Labour if the Tories back strong devolution?"

The Cornish Democrat — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:10:29 +0100

You realise that it was this greater-england nationalism of the Anglo-Brits and Tory establishment that led to the reclassification of Cornwall from Duchy and British territory to simple English county. In doing so they've had to brush our constitution under the carpet and resist all expressions of Cornish national identity.

Who knows, if this Anglo-British steam roller had had more power, and,
had the conditions been right, perhaps Wales and even Scotland might
have suffered the same fate. The British/Great Britain/UK tags (smoke
screens) would simply have been dropped and today we'd all by citizens
of a state called England that stretched from Lands End to John o'
Groats.

The Cornish Democrat

Alex Buchan on "What happens to Labour if the Tories back strong devolution?"

Alex Buchan — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:31:55 +0100

I accept your point, I am thinking more of how they are perceived, especially in Scotland and perhaps in England. Thatcher would have been seen by many as someone who stood up for England, given that England and Britain during her time was seen as interchangeable. As I say, devolution has made this blurring of distinctions more difficult. The same could equally be said of Mundel. He may genuinely think he is a Scottish patriot furthering Scotland’s interests by having her on the world stage as a junior partner. This is, after all, the argument used by Labour, Tory and Lib Dem politicians in Scotland, that independence would consign Scotland to a backwater of insignificance. Drawing on your reference to projecting England into the wider world, one could say of these Tory state nationalists that see themselves as the decedents of Drake and Raleigh. They see no rupture between the pre and post union state, how could they when this is enshrined in the long tradition of Anglo-British exceptionalism. It is the ‘Bank of England’, it is ‘Queen Elisabeth II’, the debate around the speaker showed that parliament sees itself as the English Parliament continuing i.e. we all live in England continuing. It’s not due to a fault of their own that English people see England and Britain as the same, this is what they are supposed to think. My point is that this is central to what provides popular legitimacy for the British political system, it is not optional. David Cameron, as Prime Minister, can’t just bring in a Federal Constitution, even if he wanted to, without undermining this. He would have to take the risk that, lacking genuine popular affections, a non-exceptional Britain i.e. a Britain shorn of its mystique of greatness may hold no attraction for the different nationalities of these islands.

Alex Buchan

Toque on "What happens to Labour if the Tories back strong devolution?"

Toque — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:13:25 +0100

I'm not sure that they can be termed 'English nationalists', Alex.

They are state nationalists, albeit a state in which England is - for them - very much the emotional, historical, constitutional, monarchical, religious and political heart (a mindset which is part of the problem for the Scots and Welsh).

For me they're the ideological descendents of the Imperialists of Empire Days. Those who saw Britain, and latterly Empire, as a way of projecting England (and Their cultural and political ideals) into the wider world. But its the little Englanders who objected to the mindset of men like Cecil Rhodes who were the true English nationalists.

Cecil Rhodes, David Cameron, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown...They're British/State nationalists, imperialists or "Big Englanders" as far as I am concerned. It's not nation that concerns them, it's statecraft and their own political power.

Alex Buchan on "What happens to Labour if the Tories back strong devolution?"

Alex Buchan — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 12:34:09 +0100

This is precisely my point. This kind of thing isn’t an aberration it flows directly from the exceptionalism that is the hallmark of the pre-modern British constitution. Nor does it pose problems for Scottish Unionists, instead it perpetuates the myth of greatness which lies at the heart of this ideology: that Britain is an overarching ‘Great Nation’. For English Tories there is no need to flaunt Englishness because Englishness is seen as indistinguishable from Britishness. This is also why they wouldn’t want to make this distinction, because having Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland only adds to England’s sense of greatness if no distinction is made between England and Britain. They are, in a disguised way, English Nationalist, and were widely seen to be until devolution queered the pitch.

Alex Buchan

Toque on "What happens to Labour if the Tories back strong devolution?"

Toque — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 10:53:38 +0100

As David McCrone remarked, “In an important sense, Scotland’s politicians are all Nationalists”.

They have to be.

Just take a look at David Mundell's website. If an English politician plastered their website with the Cross of St George like that people would either think they were completely insane or that they were a member of the National Front and completely insane.