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 <title>open Democracy News Analysis - 5050 - Comments</title>
 <link>http://www.opendemocracy.net/blog/5050</link>
 <description>Comments for &quot;5050&quot;</description>
 <language>en</language>
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 <title>Rob Thompson on &quot;A Petition We Cannot Sign&quot;</title>
 <link>http://www.opendemocracy.net/blog/helencosk/2008/08/21/a-petition-we-cannot-sign#comment-472995</link>
 <description>&lt;p&gt;A group that I am involved with is working on a solution to the effectiveness that online e-Petition drives have.  We are trying to facilitate online e-Petitioning in the State of Michigan.  If this project is successful, Michigan citizens will be able to sign legal citizens&#039; initiative petitions from their home, for consideration as ballot measures if enough signatures are gathered.  For more information about this cause, visit:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;http://signmyname.org&lt;/p&gt;
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 <pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 18:40:42 +0100</pubDate>
 <dc:creator>Rob Thompson</dc:creator>
 <guid isPermaLink="false">comment 472995 at http://www.opendemocracy.net</guid>
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 <title>Working abroad on &quot;The young and the restless: Beirut&#039;s new youth&quot;</title>
 <link>http://www.opendemocracy.net/blog/2008/08/01/the-young-and-the-restless-beiruts-youth#comment-466513</link>
 <description>&lt;p&gt;Racha was very much successful at depicting today&#039;s youth issues in Beirut. Though sad but true, she revealed what most of us Lebanese, be it back home or working abroad (such as myself), are facing on daily basis.&lt;/p&gt;
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 <pubDate>Sat, 02 Aug 2008 13:24:38 +0100</pubDate>
 <dc:creator>Working abroad</dc:creator>
 <guid isPermaLink="false">comment 466513 at http://www.opendemocracy.net</guid>
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 <title>Dutch on &quot;Cinema: sex trafficking and the global sex trade&quot;</title>
 <link>http://www.opendemocracy.net/blog/5050/cinema_sex_trafficking_and_the_global_sex_trade#comment-465710</link>
 <description>&lt;p&gt;Well I am from Holland where prostitution is allowed and I don&#039;t agree with you at all. Just because you allow something in a country doesn&#039;t mean that all the woman who work in this industry do this out of their own choice.  There are still women being forced to work and their money and passport taken away by guys who exploit them.&lt;/p&gt;
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 <pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 14:37:15 +0100</pubDate>
 <dc:creator>Dutch</dc:creator>
 <guid isPermaLink="false">comment 465710 at http://www.opendemocracy.net</guid>
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 <title>Not logged in on &quot;Women&#039;s Worlds 2008&quot;</title>
 <link>http://www.opendemocracy.net/blog/patricia-daniel/2008/07/14/womens-worlds-2008#comment-464396</link>
 <description>&lt;p&gt;I also attended this conference and indeed Nawal al Sadaawi did unveil so much for me...a confirmation of issues, processes and the reminder of a need for dissidence and creativity. Patricia Daniel captures it well.&lt;br /&gt;
Marilyn Waring&#039;s work is also inspirational and &#039;unveiling&#039; in its effect. The madness of national accounting systems has long been known (to us women and those who care for the environment anyway) and her work should be read more avidly by world leaders.&lt;br /&gt;
Somaly Mam&#039;s talk was heartbreaking - in its content but also in reminding us that few people are doing anything about it and no government seems to take the issue seriously enough to warrant immediate action.&lt;br /&gt;
Thank you Patricia for bringing the work of these women to a wider audience&lt;/p&gt;
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 <pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:07:20 +0100</pubDate>
 <dc:creator>Not logged in</dc:creator>
 <guid isPermaLink="false">comment 464396 at http://www.opendemocracy.net</guid>
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 <title>helencosk on &quot;My UK  journey&quot;</title>
 <link>http://www.opendemocracy.net/blog/migrantvoice-on-refuge/marie-lyse/2008/06/19/my-uk-journey#comment-462924</link>
 <description>&lt;p&gt;This is an inspiring account of one woman&amp;#39;s experiences of coming to the UK as an asylum seeker and using her positive outlook to go looking for opportunities available to develop herself, and to help others in a similar position. As Nora Hussein argues, Maria Lyse&amp;#39;s confidence which allowed her to feel like she belonged, was an important part of her success in dealing with what had happened in her past and forging out a new future for herself. However, Marie Lyse also highlights the important point here that perceptions within the UK of refugees and asylum seekers also need to change in order for that feeling to be created. And while I agree with Nora Hussein&amp;#39;s statement that we define who we are, this confidence must come from both sides in order to ease the integration process.&lt;/p&gt;
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 <pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2008 21:24:37 +0100</pubDate>
 <dc:creator>helencosk</dc:creator>
 <guid isPermaLink="false">comment 462924 at http://www.opendemocracy.net</guid>
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 <title>Rosemary Bechler on &quot;Innocent victims&quot;</title>
 <link>http://www.opendemocracy.net/blog/migrantvoice-on-refuge/rosemary-bechler/2008/06/20/innocent-victims#comment-462872</link>
 <description>&lt;p&gt;A post from Ms.B, refugee from Bosnia:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Survivors&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;To me, it almost doesn&#039;t matter whether it is British public ignorance, or media hysterics, or politicians misjudging the situation – the fact is that all these interlink, and what they have in common is that people suffer because of them for no reason at all. That makes me really angry because it&#039;s so stupid, to waste people&#039;s lives who really could make a contribution.&lt;br /&gt;
Actually the community of refugees have a strong bond and they really do know how to get things done and they pass this on to each other. Most refugee communities are run by volunteers on extraordinarily small amounts of money, but that self-help is the basis of everything they do: that is how they got organised. The challenge is that self-help can be used and abused. The Government tries to co-opt it to provide the services that they can&#039;t provide. They try to tick boxes, and sometimes they can remove the group from its original purpose which was orientation of people in a totally new situation, &#039;What I&#039;ve been through, you don&#039;t have to go through again – I can share this with you.&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
But I always say, there are no victims here. Victims are the ones who didn&#039;t manage to get here. These people might have had terrible ordeals, and gone through terrible experiences here and indeed been victimised here, but the people themselves are survivors. That driving force is sometimes difficult to switch off – but that is the benefit that is being missed because of the extraordinary life-stories that could really inspire people. I come to work here and every day, I am inspired by people and their life stories and that is priceless – to have that human contact with such resilience. And I genuinely feel sorry for other people who are missing out on that!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Don&#039;t miss out!&lt;/p&gt;
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 <pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 18:52:47 +0100</pubDate>
 <dc:creator>Rosemary Bechler</dc:creator>
 <guid isPermaLink="false">comment 462872 at http://www.opendemocracy.net</guid>
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 <title>Marta Cooper on &quot;Mind your language: banning asylum or saving sanctuary?&quot;</title>
 <link>http://www.opendemocracy.net/blog/migrantvoice-on-refuge/jonathan-cox/2008/06/19/mind-your-language-banning-asylum-or-saving-sanctuary#comment-462865</link>
 <description>&lt;p&gt;Indeed, &amp;#39;asylum&amp;#39; is a legal and technical term above all else, but I believe what is more harmful in the long-term is the terminology that goes along with asylum, namely &amp;#39;detaining&amp;#39; asylum seekers in various centres - if they are coming to the UK to seek protection, why should they immediately be detained? Such a term has instant negative connotations (it is hardly surprising, therefore, that the quintessentially British idea of &amp;#39;bloody foreigners&amp;#39; should appear again after the recent escape of seven asylum seekers from Campsfield earlier this week). It is also true that this country needs an asylum system that corresponds with the British public&amp;#39;s values, especially given that the IAC&amp;#39;s report has found the majority was proud of the British system of providing sanctuary to those in danger. The only question now is how do we and the government go about achieving this objective?&lt;/p&gt;
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 <pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:41:15 +0100</pubDate>
 <dc:creator>Marta Cooper</dc:creator>
 <guid isPermaLink="false">comment 462865 at http://www.opendemocracy.net</guid>
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 <title>YG on &quot;Creative writing at Campsfield&quot;</title>
 <link>http://www.opendemocracy.net/blog/migrantvoice-on-refuge/jenny-allsopp/2008/06/17/creative-writing-at-campsfield#comment-462817</link>
 <description>&lt;p&gt;Great piece. What makes OpenDemocracy a must read site.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
 <pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 20:43:17 +0100</pubDate>
 <dc:creator>YG</dc:creator>
 <guid isPermaLink="false">comment 462817 at http://www.opendemocracy.net</guid>
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 <title>helencosk on &quot;A conspiracy of negativity&quot;</title>
 <link>http://www.opendemocracy.net/blog/migrantvoice-on-refuge/migrantvoice-roundtable/2008/06/12/a-conspiracy-of-negativity#comment-462785</link>
 <description>&lt;p&gt;
Mr A hits the nail on the head regarding educating Britain&amp;#39;s youth (and their parents) on the reasons why refugees come seeking asylum here. His thoughts and &lt;a href=&quot;/blog/migrantvoice-roundtable/2008/06/13/representation&quot;&gt;Ms B&amp;#39;s comments&lt;/a&gt; on the press no longer speaking out or &amp;#39;playing the devil&amp;#39;s advocate&amp;#39; on behalf of the refugee comunity, point to a large gap in the migrant debate. Through that lack, teenagers and students (see &lt;a href=&quot;/blog/migrantvoice-on-refuge/jenny-allsopp/2008/06/17/creative-writing-at-campsfield&quot;&gt;Jenny Allsopp&amp;#39;s entry&lt;/a&gt;) are ignorant of refugees&amp;#39; plight.
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
The initiative Mr A describes organised by a Sunderland newspaper, is inspiring and symbolic of the impact that open communication between asylum seekers and the community in which they find themselves, can have. However, this and other projects such as &amp;#39;Football Unites&amp;#39; (&lt;a href=&quot;/blog/migrantvoice-on-refuge/tassabam-yasin/2008/06/17/football-unites&quot;&gt;Tabassam Yasin&amp;#39;s entry&lt;/a&gt;) should and need not be unique. Newspapers, schools, universities and other educational institutions throughout the country should encourage programmes like this in order to ensure that those who are bent on attaching a stigma to asylum seekers, become an unaccepted, unfashionable and ignored dying breed.
&lt;/p&gt;
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 <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 18:20:00 +0100</pubDate>
 <dc:creator>helencosk</dc:creator>
 <guid isPermaLink="false">comment 462785 at http://www.opendemocracy.net</guid>
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 <title>Rosemary Bechler on &quot;Our choice: fortress or sanctuary? &quot;</title>
 <link>http://www.opendemocracy.net/blog/migrantvoice-on-refuge/craig-barnett/2008/06/16/our-choice-fortress-or-sanctuary#comment-462775</link>
 <description>&lt;p&gt;After reading Jenny&#039;s poem from Campsfield - a poem as an act of integration! - and your thoughts on the power of a futuristic fllm, I&#039;ve been thinking about other art forms that are an  invaluable resource. For example, anyone who has read the early chapters of &#039;Jane Eyre&#039; will recognise the role of authority in bullying wherever they see it and know very well indeed what it is to be an outsider - it&#039;s a classic, alongside Dickens - we could make a list.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Sonja Linden is writing for us later in the week about her theatre company iceandfire and her plays. But iceandfire have some special Refugee Week performances that I should flag up today - not to be missed performances of Rendition Monologues at the Meltdown festival and Asylum Monologue at the Tricycle theatre:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;http://www.southbankcentre.co.uk/festivals-series/meltdown/&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;http://www.iceandfire.co.uk/afhr/eflyers/asylum_dialogues.htm&lt;/p&gt;
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 <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:56:43 +0100</pubDate>
 <dc:creator>Rosemary Bechler</dc:creator>
 <guid isPermaLink="false">comment 462775 at http://www.opendemocracy.net</guid>
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 <title>Rosemary Bechler on &quot;The media and asylum - part one&quot;</title>
 <link>http://www.opendemocracy.net/blog/migrantvoice-on-refuge/opendemocracy/2008/06/10/the-media-and-asylum-part-one#comment-462766</link>
 <description>&lt;p&gt;Ragroll sent us the following comment:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I understand the political reasons behind the attempt by some NGOs (and the Independent Asylum Commission) to separate asylum from other kinds of immigration because one is driven by international commitments and the other by economic self-interest. However all kinds of immigrants, not just asylum seekers, face human rights abuses as a result of this govt&#039;s immigration laws. These  &#039;labels&#039; merely serve govt expediency. I think it is dangerous for us to fall in with the govt&#039;s divide and rule. There are insidious notions of &#039;deserving&#039; and &#039;undeserving&#039; which prop up this system. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Plus the labels are meaningless. Often people who are uprooted and their livelihood destroyed, because a multi-national comes in to do oil exploration or whatever,  will be economic migrants if they run at that point. However if they stay and fight and get ruthlessly put down by their local dictator and then go on the run, they may be considered political refugees - so this is often a question of different points on the same timeline.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That is why we&#039;re not making headway in this whole immigration game because all the organisations have carved out their &#039;client&#039; groups in the hope that collectively they will erode the edges but they&#039;re barely managing to make a dent and the whole debate is moving very much towards the right. We must oppose all immigration controls. Nothing is to be gained by supporting the interests of one group over and above those of another group of immigrants.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
 <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 16:52:16 +0100</pubDate>
 <dc:creator>Rosemary Bechler</dc:creator>
 <guid isPermaLink="false">comment 462766 at http://www.opendemocracy.net</guid>
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 <title>Rosemary Bechler on &quot;Welcome, everybody to MigrantVoice&quot;</title>
 <link>http://www.opendemocracy.net/blog/migrantvoice-on-refuge/2008/06/16/welcome-everybody-to-migrantvoice#comment-462762</link>
 <description>&lt;p&gt;PS I forgot to mention the Life After Iraq exhibition in Glasgow - a Refugee Week event:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;http://www.glasgowmuseums.com/venue/showExhibition.cfm?venueid=13&amp;amp;itemid=201&lt;/p&gt;
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 <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 14:46:04 +0100</pubDate>
 <dc:creator>Rosemary Bechler</dc:creator>
 <guid isPermaLink="false">comment 462762 at http://www.opendemocracy.net</guid>
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 <title>Marta Cooper on &quot;The media and asylum - part one&quot;</title>
 <link>http://www.opendemocracy.net/blog/migrantvoice-on-refuge/opendemocracy/2008/06/10/the-media-and-asylum-part-one#comment-462648</link>
 <description>&lt;p&gt;The MigrantVoice roundtable discussion was an enlightening experience. To listen to refugees&#039; own experiences was humbling, but the discussion also made me realise that the issues of migration, integration and community cohesion have no uniform answers. Nonetheless, the fact that refugee and community groups discuss such issues from their own perspectives is a step in the direction towards understanding diverse experiences, and hopefully taking it to the next level by making the government aware of the issues from which it is so disconnected (Ms A&#039;s comment on the cutting of ESOL classes justifies this) . &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It also became clear that community cohesion is by no means a uniform process: after Mr P claimed the cohesion of particular individual communities should take place before they integrate themselves into the wider community, Ms Z made the interesting point that, coming from Bosnia after the genocide, her community could not in fact integrate with each other before, let alone into UK society. The government, unfortunately, has little awareness of such variables, largely because of the few distinctions that are being made between  migrants and refugees etc, as I mentioned at the discussion.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I appreciate that Rosemary enjoyed my comments. Her response over the possible danger of too many distinctions being made were also taken into consideration at the discussion, and reiterated the fact that the issues we were debating have few answers.&lt;/p&gt;
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 <pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 17:52:05 +0100</pubDate>
 <dc:creator>Marta Cooper</dc:creator>
 <guid isPermaLink="false">comment 462648 at http://www.opendemocracy.net</guid>
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 <title>Rosemary Bechler on &quot;The media and asylum - part one&quot;</title>
 <link>http://www.opendemocracy.net/blog/migrantvoice-on-refuge/opendemocracy/2008/06/10/the-media-and-asylum-part-one#comment-462584</link>
 <description>&lt;p&gt;I was lucky enough to be present at the whole of the MigrantVoice roundtable discussion, and remember thinking that Ms.M had raised a particularly timely issue when she said:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&quot;The far right and the newspapers have one thing in common: they never make any distinction at all between illegal immigrants, migrants, refugees, and asylum seekers and they are simply all tarred with the same brush.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Independent Asylum Commission made the same point emphatically in the first of its reports  on its conclusions and recommendations this May.  In calling on professionals in the field to provide a ‘protection culture’ for those who seek sanctuary, as opposed to the often ‘adversarial’ not to mention demonising treatment that asylum-seekers currently receive - it very much underlines the point that, ‘the concept of sanctuary must be distinguished very clearly from economic migration, through avoiding the term asylum and choosing understood terminology&#039;.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But as M goes on to say, &quot;The truth is - there is a negative discourse that simply attaches itself to the non-British community, and even people who have British citizenship but who weren&#039;t born here.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And the IAS also points out - amongst the many people they talked to, the problem wasn&#039;t &#039;asylum&#039; - people agreed that those needing protection should be protected. The problem was with - well what exactly? - economic migration if it has got out of hand - or foreigners - or people who are just different? People were assuming that asylum-seekers were in fact economic migrants, and that economic migrants were in fact &#039;scroungers&#039; - and a whole set of other assumptions that amount to scapegoating all sorts of inappropriate groups for the troubles of one&#039;s own nation.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I suppose we can all agree that we all ought to know more about these different groups but I&#039;m not convinced that this gets to the root of the problem. And indeed there is something about thinking about people in groups that generally speaking seems to get us into all sorts of trouble.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But the real problem I have with relying on better definitions and distinctions is this. In a globalising world, isn&#039;t it a bit of a problem if people don&#039;t like the idea of living side by side with someone who is different from them? Isn&#039;t that what we should be tackling if we want to get rid of the hostility? &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Otherwise, isn&#039;t there a danger - apart from the fact that you&#039;ll never make even a dent in the fear and mistrust - that well-meaning people seem to be saying that as long as you protect a special group of people in order to maintain your liberal human rights credentials, what happens to the rest really doesn’t matter...&lt;/p&gt;
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 <pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 09:53:06 +0100</pubDate>
 <dc:creator>Rosemary Bechler</dc:creator>
 <guid isPermaLink="false">comment 462584 at http://www.opendemocracy.net</guid>
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 <title>jayr on &quot;Cinema: sex trafficking and the global sex trade&quot;</title>
 <link>http://www.opendemocracy.net/blog/5050/cinema_sex_trafficking_and_the_global_sex_trade#comment-441319</link>
 <description>&lt;p&gt;I think if more cities/countries took on the same laws as amsterdam and legalized prostitution it would help reduce the sex slave trade, just as prohibition stopped many from profiting off illegal alcohol the violence dropped and it became a part of society. Whenever i&#039;m looking to have fun I use &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bunniesoflondon.co.uk&quot;&gt;london escorts&lt;/a&gt; who have been the most professional that i&#039;ve found.&lt;/p&gt;
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 <pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 16:44:41 +0100</pubDate>
 <dc:creator>jayr</dc:creator>
 <guid isPermaLink="false">comment 441319 at http://www.opendemocracy.net</guid>
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