open Democracy News Analysis - ukraine - Comments

Michael Averko on "Recasting Ukraine's identity?"

Michael Averko — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 10:24:00 +0000

For those of us who are truly in the know, Dr. Petro's article outlines the already obvious about the actual realities in Ukraine.

Excerpt:

"To be sure, even if Yushchenko is knocked out of the political arena, Timoshenko, 48, would still face a serious fight against pro-Russian opposition leader Viktor Yanukovych.

Ukraine is tired of the 'continued infighting between the president and prime minister,' said Kaan Nazli, director of Medley Global Advisors LCC, a New York-based policy intelligence service. 'The conflict will first and foremost benefit Yanukovych as the polls show a majority of the Ukrainian public disagree with the government's handling of the conflict'."

****

If I'm not mistaken, the latest poll has Viktor Yanukovych ahead of Yulia Tymoshenko.

As of now, it seems unlikely that someone other than Tymoshenko or Yanukovych will be the next Ukrainian president. At this juncture, the neocon/neolib Orange hardcore might want to start considering another presidential option besides Yushchenko. This doesn't necessarily exclude seeking some kind of an accord with Tymoshenko.

This very last point should consider how Tymoshenko has of late drifted to a more Russia friendly position. On the other hand, post-Soviet Ukrainian politics has seen its share of back and forth geopolitical leanings among folks like Tymoshenko and the first two post-Soviet Ukrainian presidents Leonid Kravchuk and Leonid Kuchma.

The actual Russia friendly sentiment in Ukraine has often not been reflected by the given Ukrainian presidency in office. This suggests that the other Ukrainian view is better organized. Very often, the smaller/less popular grouping is better structured as a result of being well aware of their comparatively smaller numbers. This point is akin to the smaller athlete in a power sport being proportionately stronger than his bigger peers.

Regarding the Russian Orthodox Church bashing at this thread, it can be said that the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church and the breakaway Ukrainian Orthodox Church faction led by Filaret have had their own instances of political agendas. The Ukrainian Orthodox Church-Moscow Patriarchate remains the largest religious denomination in Ukraine.

Michael Averko

American Guy on "Recasting Ukraine's identity?"

American Guy — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 20:21:27 +0000

Dear Not Logged In, you say:

"The author's sources and the statistics he quotes are highly selective and smack of bias"

In that case, can you please point me to some Ukrainian sources and statistics that prove him wrong? Do you have any Ukraine-based polls that show (for example) that most Ukrainians want to join NATO, want to distance themselves from Russia, or have a good opinion of Yuschenko? If so I would like to see them.

"Note also the use of Russian spellings for Ukrainian geographic names"

I just looked over the article again. I didn't see any geographical names, either Russian or Ukrainian, within the body of the article (except for country names, which are in English).

Independent on "Recasting Ukraine's identity?"

Independent — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 16:22:07 +0000

The author of the article should know that the Russian Orthodox Church has always been an ideological and political instrument of Kremlin's imperialist policies, and as such it is used in a full scale in Ukraine.
I also seriously doubt the reliability of polls cited in the article.

The article is just another attempt to project a traditionally pro-Russian type of thinking on the subject.

Not logged in on "Recasting Ukraine's identity?"

Not logged in — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 15:58:05 +0000

The author's sources and the statistics he quotes are highly selective and smack of bias (mostly reports from highly partisan Russian media as then reported in Western digests). Not a single source from Ukraine or from not government-controlled Russian media was used. Note also the use of Russian spellings for Ukrainian geographic names, defying the standards adopted by the United Nations and the US Board of Geographic Names.

Not logged in on "Recasting Ukraine's identity?"

Not logged in — Thu, 05 Feb 2009 21:24:57 +0000

The former Soviet territory always had two troubles: roads and fools. But life goes on, and the list of troubles gets certain national colour. It seems, that in Ukraine now it is necessary to be afraid not only of "fools" and "roads", but “ crisis struggle” and “Euro 2012 preparation”.
http://ua-ru-news.blogspot.com/2009/01/shvonders-struggle-with-crisis.html

Translator on "Recasting Ukraine's identity?"

Translator — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 10:26:03 +0000

Translator

My question to the two "Ukrainians" who made the above posts: are you happy with the present state of things in Ukraine? What have the pro-Western President and government done to develop the economy, to create new jobs and to promote effective governance? Why do hundreds of thousands of people still have to work in Russia illegally? Instead or repeating your mantras, try to do something practical!

American guy on "Recasting Ukraine's identity?"

American guy — Mon, 02 Feb 2009 06:54:24 +0000

It appears the 2 "Ukrainian guys" missed this part of the article:

"Nearly 88% of Ukrainians say they have a positive attitude toward Russia, while two-thirds say they would vote against NATO membership, mostly because it threatens Russian security. About as many say they want closer relations with Russia[v]."

That doesn't sound to me like a country seeking to "distance itself from Muscovy."

Not logged in James O'Connell on "Recasting Ukraine's identity?"

Not logged in James O'Connell — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 17:05:44 +0000

The Russian-Ukrainian relationship is bedevilled by ambigity - just as the British-Irish relationship was for a long time. In the latter case the Irish are the nearest of foreigners and the furthest of provincials. Too much history and too much culture have been shared. There were wrongs but the modern outcome is finally positive.

Ukrainian on "Recasting Ukraine's identity?"

Ukrainian — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:22:10 +0000

New version of an old song: Ukraine cannot be part of Europe without Russia & Ukraine needs someone (Russia) who will supervise it.
Argumentation used by the author is good only for the Western public who is far from realities and information on this region.

Ukrainian guy on "Recasting Ukraine's identity?"

Ukrainian guy — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 05:13:26 +0000

Clearly this article was writen by a Russophile. Ukrainians are in fact seeking to distance themselves from Muscovy and become an integral European nation. Away from Muscovy (Russia to some) and towards Europe will be the matra for Ukrainians for the immediate future.

Yosyk on "Ukraine's Window of Opportunity"

Yosyk — Sat, 03 Jan 2009 03:15:56 +0000

Please see my comments on this article on my blog at http://jl-studyukraine.blogspot.com/

Translator on "Ukraine's Window of Opportunity"

Translator — Thu, 25 Dec 2008 12:22:35 +0000

Translator

No use in discussing the political system of Ukraine. With its economy effectively ruined, it has the only option left - to become a raw materials-producing agrarian appendage to EU, provided the law on land sale is passed.

Dmitriy Iassenev on "Ukraine's Window of Opportunity"

Dmitriy Iassenev — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 19:56:14 +0000

I strongly disagree, that Ukraine should become a parliamentary republic. Strong parliamentary republics are Germany and Italy, and this transformation was after WW2 and was tied on by the USA and other allies to prevent these countries be strong. For example, in Italy there were 65 prime ministers during 64 years, is it a stability?

I think that if Ukraine become a parliamentary republic, it would loose its sovereignty. There is a country at the North-East of Ukraine which would be very glad to see Ukraine as a weak country, would use this possibility to get country under its control and absorb it.

For these uncertain years Ukraine needs strong enough President with reasonable rights, which wouldn't been influenced by another countries (like our current prime minister, for example)

yurchyk on "Ukraine's Window of Opportunity"

yurchyk — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:16:40 +0000

As for me Yuschenko still have a strong influence in the country which cant"t be depicted by the ratings. There are a lot of people who will vote not because they believe someone but because they do not believe the others and in this case Yushchenko still has a chances. Anyway it is impossible to discuss political system in UA without personalization of the positions: untill we stop to think that prime-minister is "she", and head of the parliament is "he".

Another comment: Does this article has something with Russia? Why it is not in separate topic?