open Democracy News Analysis - Tibet (2008) - Comments

Leon Dux on "China's soft-power failure"

Leon Dux — Sun, 24 May 2009 20:03:11 +0100

Get lost, Chinese rubbish.

Anne Adams on "China's soft-power failure"

Anne Adams — Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:03 +0000

Johannes Adamsen said:
"I simply find it difficult to comprehend just why China was given the possibilitiy to host the games only a little more than one year after the crackdown on Falun Gong in 1999, blah blah blah ..."

This is just so typical of western arrogance. The Olympic games are a part of humanity. They are not there for anyone to give, but for all to bid. The winner gets to host by the nation's merit. The chinese won and put up a good show for world. Good for them. Get over it, loser.

Franc on "The perils of forced modernity: China-Tibet, America-Iraq"

Franc — Sat, 07 Feb 2009 05:44:00 +0000

Tsongi must have a short memory, I read western mind you, not eastern records of tibet the last century, it was hell for the lower class, 90% were slaves of monastery and upper class now reside in India and elsewhere.
Tsongi should know that holing up in a reservation is not that a good deal for human development.

andreea123 on "Tibet: looking for the truth "

andreea123 — Thu, 04 Sep 2008 19:24:08 +0100

The thing that I've always dreamed of was to go in Tibet, so see the tigers! Really, that's my dream! If it would be possible, I'd like to raise one. I saw a clip on utube, about a couple who raised a lion since he was little, but had to let him go in the wild, and afterwards they wanted to see his reaction after a couple of years.. and imagine what happened when they encountered.. the lion practically embraced them, it was a very touching scene..I guess it's gonna be a google massacre when people will start searching it.

arnaldog on "China's soft-power failure"

arnaldog — Tue, 27 May 2008 09:24:27 +0100

I agree with Li Datong that the closing Olimpics will provide everyone some guidance on what are the full intentions of Chinese government and CCP leadership. It is to be proved if the CPG extracts the wise lessons from the humanitarian crisis of Sichuan and use it as leverage to unite the Chinese people and make more transparent and accountable its leadership. China needs in a rawlsian sense a social contract that defines, clearly, the relation between rulers and the people. Ideology has fade away, but Western liberalism seems hardly the path for China have the necessary combine between tradition and modernity, order and openess, respect and plurality. A new mix is necessary based in Chinese traditions and the responsabilities China is asked to perform in world stage.

Johannes Adamsen on "China's soft-power failure"

Johannes Adamsen — Fri, 23 May 2008 16:51:25 +0100

I really appreciate openDemocracy's Li Datong, but this time I miss something in the argument.

I simply find it difficult to comprehend just why China was given the possibilitiy to host the games only a little more than one year after the crackdown on Falun Gong in 1999, cf Maria Hsia Chang, Falun Gong. The End of Days, Yale University Press 2004. This could hardly be interpreted as a straight line of bettering on human rights records since Tiananmen 1989. I'll be delighted to have Li Datong commenting on that.

Is it due to a underreporting of what went on in China in those months in 1999? Or should we just suppose that the International Olympic Comitee is out of tune with the world - when it does not concern money at least?

hjah15 on "China’s political colours: from monochrome to palette"

hjah15 — Thu, 22 May 2008 11:05:49 +0100

Hey Professor Wasserstrom,

My name is Jonathan; I was in your history class in Spring of 2007. I'm currently at Peking University and I can see how colors are instrumental in how the government is promoting the Olympics. The background of the Olympic logo is often blue as the government is attempting to connect with the international community. China's attempt to blend the different elements of traditionalism, nationalism, and communist ideology often results in bizarre contradictions. But it still mixes somehow.

tsepesh on "Tibet: looking for the truth "

tsepesh — Thu, 15 May 2008 20:15:28 +0100

What "lie" is he talking about?

Western media lies and Chinese media lies. So you will believe Chines media. Good for you. Mao would be proud.

oaim50 on "Tibet scholars and China: a letter "

oaim50 — Thu, 15 May 2008 16:15:30 +0100

One more thing. The real original meaning of 'scholar' is someone who goes to school (like in German Schüler). Nowadays it means someone who specializes in a particular field of studies, generally in some field belonging to the humanities. I say this because it seems to have created some confusion. Of course there are a few individual scholars who did not sign (very few), and of course the exception of only one group of professional Tibet-specialists in the world whose names are conspicuously absent from this petition. Those names belong to the Tibet specialists (both Tibetan and Chinese) within the PRC today. I'm not sure if you will believe me, but I'd just like to say that most of them would have signed if they could have done so without facing harsh punishments. And nobody knows better than the Tibet specialists how much their colleagues within the PRC are used for political purposes against their will to say what they themselves do not believe.

oaim50 on "Tibet scholars and China: a letter "

oaim50 — Thu, 15 May 2008 15:40:03 +0100

Earlier comment writers seem to have been confused by the word 'witnessed' as in 'the world has witnessed.' This doesn't in any way imply that the world was present at the events. But practically all the signers of the letter have been to the Peoples Republic and to Tibet, some of them many times. If you are interested to hear more about the longer arguments, I'd especially recommend the one book listed above, which only this year became available in English (the French was published in 2002): Anne-Marie Blondeau & Katia Buffetrille, eds., Authenticating Tibet: Answers to China's 100 Questions.

I think you will agree with me that there are fairly frequent demonstrations in PRC, and they are hardly ever peaceful. That's because they are illegal, and demonstrators fully expect to get their heads cracked and much worse. Regardless of that fact, only 2 or 3 of the more than 30 major Tibetan demonstrations turned violent. I think it's important to realize that Tibetans do and will always consider attacks on sangha members, on monks and nuns, a very serious provocation. I don't think this fact is appreciated, just because Tibetans are never allowed to express what they think on these matters. Well, you've seen what can happen.

And one more thing. Do you believe the pictures of dead bodies in Aba (that's Ngaba in Tibetan, but I understand some people can't pronounce it correctly) are just photoshops? If you think so, just say it. Have you see them? I wonder why none of the Tibetan deaths (besides one or two burned to death in Lhasa) are ever mentioned on the China side? Are you really so deluded as to think that Xinhua tells you the truth? Tibetans ought to take a class-action suit against CCTV. It would make so much more sense than that one against CNN.

chen on "Tibet scholars and China: a letter "

chen — Sat, 10 May 2008 13:23:20 +0100

i feel very shameful because i find a signature from Leiden University!

i come to Leiden because i respect their attitude to reserach. I believe they are different from our professors in China. but now.....????

I just want to know how many foreign scholars were in Tibet at that time, because they use the word "witness".

chen on "China and Tibet: the true path"

chen — Sat, 10 May 2008 13:13:43 +0100

while many Tibetans, especially the young who are the future of Tibet, are struggling for total independence.

I think it's a joke to say that. how do u treat your young Tibetans living in Tibet now? They are the majority to represent the future of Tibet, not those young Tibetans living in other countries.

newwebid@yahoo.com on "How to think about Tibet"

newwebid@yahoo.com — Sun, 27 Apr 2008 02:52:54 +0100

Lopez may think of himself as the true guardian of the Tibetan culture in its most pristine form. However, a culture--and the knowledge of the culture--is the product of socio-economic development of the time, not some abstract conception in an expert's head.

The problem with Lopez's argument is that he somehow imagines that Tibetan culture is so inherently enduring and immutable that it can outlast the evolution of the Chinese nation through revolutions, industrialization and globalization.

There are many questions with regard to what the Tibetans are destined in the age of, first nation-state then globalization, vis-a-vis what the Han Chinese (as who I am) have done to alter that destination. There are even more questions as to whether Han Chinese are capable of, or entitled to, governing a people that don't share their East Asian heritage (hence the Tibetan culture is labeled a "world heritage").

The different answers to those questions form different narratives of what is going on in China, and the West's image of its past and present in light of what is going on in China. There is always the desire to consolidate different narratives and to create a brand of knowledge, or better yet, the truth (about Tibet). The domination project is not completed until discipline is so instill that even the Han Chinese feel uneasy of having "occupied" Tibet. To me, the debate about Tibet is not as much about Tibet as about China, because Tibet may never challenge the Western but China does.

Edward Said says in his Orientalism that every Orientalist is, consciously or not, a racist. So I think of Lopez.

For a more detailed critique of the West's attitude toward Tibet, please visit my recent blog entry.

Grant on "Tibet scholars and China: a letter "

Grant — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 02:41:00 +0100

firstly , i completely support the above comment by that friend, your questions are rather reasonable, well, they refer themselves as scholar, they must enough convincingly evidence to certify truth of the event happning, so ,every scholar ,please look before you leap.do not let your papers including many suspective question to appear on the any page,

Huizi GUO on "Tibet scholars and China: a letter "

Huizi GUO — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 22:57:53 +0100

While you refer yourselves as scholars, I am only a masters' student. And here are some questions I feel rather confusing. I'd really appreciate it if we can have a discussion over my questions:

1. As quoted from your article "The world has witnessed an outbreak of protests across the Tibetan plateau, followed in most instances by a harsh, violent repression. In the majority of cases these protests have been peaceful. The result has been an unknown number of arrests and the loss of numerous lives, which have been overwhelmingly Tibetan. "

1.1 You mentioned the world had witnessed.., but why did I witness a different scene? I wonder from what source did you and "the world" witnessed what you described? I happen to understand both English and Chinese, and I happen to be very concerned about the issue and have been following tightly to the reports from medias in UK, US, France, Hong Kong and Mainland China, moreover, I spent lots of time searching for footage taken by real witnesses. I may not be the most neutral source but for one thing I am sure, is that the coverage from BBC, CNN, Reuters etc. were biased (so is Chinese media). I could see clearly through several videos, including the one published by Chinese authorities, that the "protest" was full of violence, while I didn't find any convincing pictures showing "harsh and violent repression". Those I found were either pictures of trucks, police or videos with gun sound from nowhere, not to mention the false pictures from BBC and CNN, one using old pictures in Nepal and one interpreting a picture that Chinese nurses carrying people into an ambulance into police arresting the protesters (I have solid evidence;references available upon request). I wonder if you have some clearer evidence which can share with the world to show exactly how the “repression" was held.

1.2 You mentioned there was a "loss of numerous lives, which have been overwhelmingly Tibetan". Could I ask for reference? How many is numerous? Why did you say those were overwhelmingly Tibetan? And within those "overwhelmingly Tibetan", what percentage of them were protectors and what percentage were innocent victims who were burned or beat by protesters?

1.3 In your article, it seemed that many "peaceful protests" were held and all repressed ruthlessly. Do you have evidence for that? if not, shall I ask you to put it in a clearer way so that people will not be misled?

2 If the protests were not peaceful, let's just say if, because we obviously haven't reached an agreement on that. And to be neutral, let's assume there is a protest in a place A within a country B, and some protesters beat innocent passengers and burnt both public and private properties. If this happened in any country, what is the right reaction of the government? Under what condition do you not label it "terrorism"?

3 Only my personal opinion. It is not the Chinese government to decide whether Tibet should or should not be "free". It has no choice. Chinese people didn't let go Tibet when the country was nearly broken after invaded by other countries, when millions of people died in protecting their home and afterwards suffered from famine and poverty. It is impossible for them to let go Tibet now when the memory of broken home is still bloody fresh. If Chinese government agreed on a "free Tibet", it simply provoke its people, and the CCP will almost definitely lose its govern, So the solution could be another "conversation" between Chinese authorities and Dalai Lama, but surely not a "free Tibet".

Again, I'm not an expert on Tibet issues. But I am a student who believe in evidence and will be convinced if solid evidence is provided before you reaching a conclusion.

Thank you for your concern about my country.
Looking forward to your answers.