open Democracy News Analysis - England - Comments

Toque on "English nationalism vs British nationalism"

Toque — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 09:38:04 +0100

"will English Nationalism forgive you?"

This assumes that there is one English nationalism, and that I am asking for forgiveness.

"The Englland First Party, is or was effectively going to close down."

Then let it close down and have nothing to do with it.

English Nationalist on "English nationalism vs British nationalism"

English Nationalist — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 22:07:21 +0100

Don't you see, that the English Democrats had WON the battle, they had proven that patriotic Engish Nationalism is the way forward.

The Englland First Party, is or was effectively going to close down.

You have made a very bad mistake - Gareth Young - will English Nationalism forgive you ?

The Cornish Democrat on "Breaking-Up Britain "

The Cornish Democrat — Wed, 27 May 2009 10:16:21 +0100

Joe,

I do welcome this book and the debate it promotes but what I don't like is the lack of intellectual honesty from progressive English nationalists who simply ignore the Cornish question, that they are fully aware of, for a number of different and equally unjustifiable reasons.

Equally Joe just because this book pushes forward the debate on Scottish independence does not mean it should be beyond criticism.

Finally I have major doubts about the benefit to the Cornish home-rule movement of finding itself in an independent England without having first secured at least the start of a devolutionary process.

The Cornish Democrat

The Cornish Democrat on "Breaking-Up Britain "

The Cornish Democrat — Wed, 27 May 2009 10:09:29 +0100

Is this person mad? He seems terribly hooked-up on blood lines and race. As for my family I don't see what it has to do with this debate really, but none of them are from Devonshire as far as I know.

The Cornish Democrat

A sad state of affairs... on "English nationalism vs British nationalism"

A sad state of affairs... — Mon, 25 May 2009 19:59:09 +0100

I have to say I am frankly disgusted at what has become of the EDP. I was briefly a member of the party back in 07 but left shortly later after hearing about the EFP link.
I would hope other members of the EDP who felt the same have also left. When I was a member there was certainly other members like myself with non-English family members, so the prospect of any kind of alliance between themselves and the EFP is worrying to say the least.

Mike Small on "Breaking-Up Britain "

Mike Small — Mon, 25 May 2009 18:53:49 +0100

Orkanians?

joe.middleton on "Breaking-Up Britain "

joe.middleton — Mon, 25 May 2009 17:53:49 +0100

From what I've read the book is interesting and worth reading on its own merits. Rather than complaining 'where's Cornwall' those who are interested in achieving independence or devolution for Cornwall should welcome this book as a contribution towards the break up of the British state.

Cornwall's lack of profile is due to the British state's actions and the end of that state is likely at this point to begin in either Wales or Scotland.

That is reality but Cornwall's case has not been forgotten or ignored by the other Celtic countries.

The Hammer on "Breaking-Up Britain "

The Hammer — Sat, 23 May 2009 09:53:56 +0100

The people of Cornwall cannot afford to pay for their own assembly, 60% of people in county Cornwall are from neighbouring fellow English counties. 0.01% speak a reconstruction of Welsh and Breton for a third language hobby, which some sociopaths try to pass off as "ethnicity". Not a country, not a nation. Take The Cornish Democrat for example, his real name is Philip Hosking and his family is from Devon. The English taxpayers should not have to pay a single penny for the self-affirmed victimdom of identity confused Englishmen like him. I would rather people like Philip emmigrate than working class people from other counties pay money for his vanity. Many of the people who signed his "petition" on the internet were not even from Cornwall.

Though something is missing, the Nordic nations of Shetland and Orkney, to these people the term "Scotland" means the foreigners on the mainland (such as Raymond Bell, a Saxon Communist from Edinburgh, acting as an agent provocateur across the internet to negate the fact that he lives in a slum) and assert an identity closer to the Nordic countries, especially Norway (the country it was previously part of and was supposed to be returned to). We must also put under the microscope the Highland and Western Isles Question, these are very different culturally to the Saxon, non-Celtic Lowlands and have very different economic needs. Free Shetlandlers, Free Orkanians. Free the Highlanders too. No to Holyrood, no to Westminster.

Mike Small on "English nationalism vs British nationalism"

Mike Small — Wed, 20 May 2009 19:51:03 +0100

Wyrdtimes wrote: 'It just takes time. The Eng Dems should look at the SNP, it's taken them decades to get where they are today.'

Of course the difference is that the election of an SNP Govt came after decades of civil society struggle, for Home Rule, against Trident, against Thatcherism, the Poll Tax and so on.

It wasnt a movement for the SNP, it was a movement for Scottish self-determination.

It seems that there is very little to bind the 3000 or so people claimed to support these parties, be they racist or not.

The Hammer on "Breaking-Up Britain "

The Hammer — Wed, 20 May 2009 03:44:37 +0100

The people of Cornwall cannot afford to pay for their own assembly, 60% of people in county Cornwall are from neighbouring fellow English counties. 0.01% speak a fake reconstruction of Welsh and Breton for a hobby, which some sociopaths try to pass off as a real language. Not a country, not a nation. Take The Cornish Democrat for example, his real name is Philip Hosking and his family is from Devon. The English taxpayers should not have to pay a single penny for the self-affirmed victimdom of identity confused Englishmen like him.

Though something is missing, the Nordic nations of Shetland and Orkney, to these people the term "Scotland" means the foreigners on the mainland and assert an identity closer to the Nordic countries, especially Norway. We must also put under the microscope the Highland and Western Isles Question, these are very different culturally to the Saxon Lowlands and have very different economic needs. Free Shetland, Free Orkney. Its their oil. No to Holyrood, no to Westminster.

Guy Aitchison on "English nationalism vs British nationalism"

Guy Aitchison — Tue, 19 May 2009 13:36:27 +0100

Steve Uncles, you really are your own worst enemy. As long as your party associates with racists and neo-nazis no one in their right mind will touch it with a barge pole. What you should really be doing is thanking Gareth for taking the time to provide you with a lesson in basic political ethics and campaigning. Instead you subject him to juvenile abuse, making irrelevant comments about his wife and personal situation and labelling him a "traitor". Unless you elevate your level of debate and distance yourself from the far-right fringe you're doomed to stay irrelevant. Believe me.

Toque on "English nationalism vs British nationalism"

Toque — Tue, 19 May 2009 13:10:13 +0100

Gareth. I've been involved with the EDP for a few years and I have never heard any racist views. Undeniably immigration is a big issue - but that's because the British Governments open door policy IS a big issue.

I know several people within the EDP and they're most certainly not racists. This article is not intended to insinuate that they are, and I don't believe that it does. The alliance appears to be confined to the North West (the only place where the EFP are a force) and at the behest of the EDP leadership and significant players rather than the EDP rank and file (many of whom are as disgusted as I am at the EFP). For what it's worth I don't believe that the EDP leadership is racist, just incredibly moronic.

The policy of 'converting' members of racist parties to English nationalism is not a policy that anyone should support. More worrying is the prospect that if the EDP are successful in this gambit - which is a big if but still a possibility - then the BNP could become an English nationalist party which I believe will make it a stronger political force, and a more harmful one at that (not only to the cause of English nationalism but to society as a whole).

The EDP may see political gain in converting racist parties and the members of racist parties to English nationalism, in which case they should explain their strategy to those of us not smart enough to appreciate their true genius. And while they're at it perhaps they can explain what political imperative results in articles like this from the EFP's website (and there's plenty as bad as that on there).

Toque on "English nationalism vs British nationalism"

Toque — Tue, 19 May 2009 12:43:31 +0100

According to SU politics is more about marketing than policy, so presumably this alliance is presentational (or down to a lack of awareness).

"The reason, that we don't get as many votes as the BNP, is simply because our awareness is not as high.

You fail over and over again to understand that politics is more about marketing then policy.

When will you learn ?"

Wyrdtimes on "English nationalism vs British nationalism"

Wyrdtimes — Tue, 19 May 2009 12:38:37 +0100

The English Democrats party political broadcast is unequivocal on
the parties policy on race, religion and origin:

EDP PPB 2009 wrote:

We need an English parliament and government
for England now so that every English citizen of whatever creed,
whatever religion, and whatever birthplace is properly represented,
has their concerns listened to and their rights defended. Because the
British establishment, Westminster and the British Government fail to
do so ...

As far as I understand it this position is diametrically opposed
to the England First Party and the BNP.

Based upon this the EDP is categorically NOT a racist party.

I am a lapsed member of the English Democrats but I want them to
do well and I want to rejoin because I believe that they have the
best chance of getting justice for the English people.

The only thing that stops me is this deal with England First - if
it exists. Why can't the party come out and clarify the position?

Don't the party understand just how poisonous the accusation of
association with England First is?

Steve. Gareth is no traitor go and look through the archive at
http://toque.co.uk/blog/ as far as I can tell; few have worked so
hard to expose the injustices against England.

Gareth. I've been involved with the EDP for a few years and I have
never heard any racist views. Undeniably immigration is a big issue -
but that's because the British Governments open door policy IS a big
issue.

For England's sake the English Democrats should make a statement
and lay this issue to rest. Because if you don't; this issue will
return and return and return and each time it does some more mud will
stick until the whole English movement is tarnished.

No deals with the far right! Lets concentrate on getting votes off
the British establishment parties and getting the non voters out to
vote for England.

Our cause is our strength. Lets not let
egos do any more damage.

Paul Kingsnorth on "English nationalism vs British nationalism"

Paul Kingsnorth — Tue, 19 May 2009 11:29:36 +0100

Steve Uncles - you are a blazing idiot.

You have failed to respond to a single criticism that Gareth makes in this piece. Instead you insult him and call him a 'traitor.' You make his case for him.

Can you explain, please, how a public alliance with an openly racist party is going to help your 'strategy'? Could you tell us, as well as Gareth, what your 'strategy' is?

Like Gareth, I am an English nationalist. I would love to see a decent, intelligent English party contest the next election. The time is ripe for change. For a while I hoped the EDP might be that party. Now I see you in open alliance with a party which advocates the 'repatriation' of black people and the banning of mosques. Unless your 'strategy' aims to make you look like a bunch of pig-ignorant racists, I would suggest that it is failing you, because this is what it does. Mentioning the fact that Gareth is 'married to a Canadian' hardly helps your case on this count. Do you have a problem with that? Perhaps that makes him even more of a 'traitor' eh?

Instead of slagging of those who expose you to the light, why don't you get your own house in order? Make up your mind whether you want to appeal to anyone beyond bigots, racists and fruitcakes, and if you do, don't associate with them. Or you'll lose even more of your own money come the elections.

Incidentally, Gareth doesn't live in Canada, he lives in Sussex. We had a drink together recently in a good English pub, and lamented the lack of intelligent political representation for the English cause. Looks like we'll be waiting a while longer for that.