Democracy, the artificial false freedom.

Posts: 8
Joined: 2008-04-15

In a world where outside forces are using money to control entire governments, to decide who is right and who is wrong, and who does and does not deserve protection from perceived tyranny, how many of us can say with any real honesty and sincerity that we live in a real democracy. I've read and heard it time and time again, the USA and the UK will liberate the likes of Iraq from the persecution of so called despots such as Saddam Husein. And liberate them we do, whether they like it or not. We see the pictures of people celebrating in their streets, as if they really think it is all over, that we have set them free. Please excuse my continual references to Iraq, but seeing as our masters did not deem Zimbabwe or Burma worthy of liberating, then Iraq remains the most recent. Obviously the entire Arab world will eventually be forced to adopt what we in the west have come to accept as democracy. People within those regions who will be expecting to feel some kind of new found freedom after such regime changes will be sadly disappointed. The old adage "Out of the frying pan into the fire" springs to mind. Because just like those forced to live under the control of so called undemocratic regimes, we in the west are being told what to do, how to live, who to live with, what to believe in, and just a importantly what we may or may not say or write.

I know that things are a little better in the USA than in my homeland the United Kingdom, this is almost entirely because you have a constitutional bill of rights, which your politicians guard with their lives because to do otherwise would be political suicide. But every day I read complaints made by my American Comrades, about how the third amendment in particular, is being eroded. One small example of this is a story sent to me recently concerning new laws in most states forcing Americans to accept homosexual couples even if it flies in the face of their Christian beliefs. Here in the UK we have been having such laws foisted upon us for decades. Without any constitutional safeguards we are forced to accept any decision made by our government once the majority have elected it. Greedy international capitalists are telling the people of a small overcrowded island that we need cheap foreign labor despite our own unemployment problems for example. Employers here are forced to "reflect the racial make up of their community" when employing people, unless of course the racial make up of their community is predominately white. And even worse than all that, we have people sat in prison cells for years, not because of what they have done, but because of what thy have said or written. It is therefore easy to see why only those who agree with and benefit from the enforced cultural and sexual "enrichment" of our nation, could possibly believe that we live in a democracy in the real sense of he word. And only those with nothing to say could possibly believe that we have free speech.

And so in short I would like to ask this question; What gives us the right to go bombing the hell out of other countries and removing their leaders in order to "liberate" their people? I would suggest that had it been the so called undemocratic countries that had all the money and military power, they could just as easily be justified in liberating us.

For Race & Nation

http://bpp.org.uk

Submitted on Wed, 2008-04-16 12:13

BigC

Posts: 189
Joined: 2007-09-03

the worst system there is except for all the others

Quote:

One small example of this is a story sent to me recently concerning new
laws in most states forcing Americans to accept homosexual couples even
if it flies in the face of their Christian beliefs.

Not a very good example of a lost freedom. Perhaps a bigger example would be the homosexuals having to endure persecution (often murderous) for centuries by god botherers of all denominations. Curtailing the right to persecute or exclude people for their sexual orientation is a found freedom not a lost one.

I quite agree that the west has no right to go "liberating" where it is not invited. But please don't say that democracy of any kind is morally equivalent to non-democracies. It may well be the case that we do not live up to the bottom-up principles on which rule by the people is based but at least those principles are there to aspire to.

Better to concentrate on making democracy work than in deriding it's lack of perfection.

Submitted on Wed, 2008-04-16 14:28
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Iron Mike

Posts: 918
Joined: 2004-10-07

Homosexuals are not denied "rights"

Quote:

Curtailing the right to persecute or exclude people for their sexual orientation is a found freedom not a lost one.

Not sure about the UK, but there has never been a "right" to persecute anyone for their sexual orientation. The issue in the US is one of so-called "gay marriage" which is not a denial of a right, but the creation of a new one.

Gay citizens have the same right as any hetrosexual to marry one member of the opposite sex. They are just denied in most states, a "new right" not found in our constitution to marry eachother. In most states, they have the alternative ability to form a "domestic partnership" which conveys many of the same legal protections offered to married couples.

Quote:

Better to concentrate on making democracy work than in deriding it's lack of perfection.

I agree, though I'm somewhat puzzled to see that view in a professed communist. Perhaps our discussions have sparked an epiphany!

Boring and enraging Liberals with the truth since 2004

Submitted on Wed, 2008-04-16 15:00
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 8
Joined: 2008-04-15

Some of us will always resit the thought police!

BigC wrote:

Quote:

Typical liberal response when faced with the fact that most normal people do not appreciate being told to tolerate that which they find abhorrent. But I will continue nevertheless.

If someone doesn't want to include me because of my beliefs, which are White Nationalist, I would rather not be included anyway. Its a matter of personal pride, and of course a good sign that I would not enjoy the company of such people anyway. It puzzles me that homosexuals desire to be where they are neither wanted or welcome, so much so that they will use the the law to force people who dislike them to accept their presence. This will not make people more prepared to be accepting of them, personally I go to great lengths to make sure that only people who share my beliefs are ever invited to any event I or my Comrades organise. I guarantee you that there will never be any homosexuals
permitted at any BPP function. In fact I would close a meeting down before admitting such people.

Unfortunately for those with strong religious beliefs, they rely on building congregations made up of members of the public. It is obvious that they are now being forced to accept people who their religion tells them, (quite rightly in my opinion) are wrong, unnatural, and ultimately against what they stand for.

It almost makes one sympathetic with he Muslim fundamentalist. :(

For Race & Nation

http://bpp.org.uk

For Race & Nation

http://bpp.org.uk

Submitted on Wed, 2008-04-16 16:36
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 351
Joined: 2006-01-11

BP PUKE

Quote: " If someone doesn't want to include me because of my beliefs, which are
White Nationalist, I would rather not be included anyway. Its a matter
of personal pride, and of course a good sign that I would not enjoy the
company of such people anyway."

So, why are you here?

Submitted on Wed, 2008-04-16 17:03
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 932
Joined: 2005-11-22

You have to chuckle at the

You have to chuckle at the idea of a White Nationalist who identifies with Muslim fundamentalist hatred and can’t imagine himself sharing a room with someone who thinks differently than he does calling himself normal.

You simply can't make this sort of stuff up!

Submitted on Wed, 2008-04-16 17:14
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 8
Joined: 2008-04-15

Yawn!

chris9234 wrote:

You simply can't make this sort of stuff up!

I said almost sympathise, but go ahead and continue to twist my words. They are still there in writing to prove what I said. Shame really, because I came here expecting to see at least half intelligent attempts made to prove me wrong. All I have seen so far is some very boring attempts at sarcasm and extracting the urine.

Why don't you tell me why I, or anyone else for that matter, should even try to accept the deviant perverts and their blatant sodomy. The fact that the homosexual issue was only part of my reasoning that western democracy is fake.

The reason you can't make "stuff up" is probably due to your lack of imagination. Typical gliberal pinko!

For Race & Nation

http://bpp.org.uk

For Race & Nation

http://bpp.org.uk

Submitted on Wed, 2008-04-16 17:29
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 932
Joined: 2005-11-22

I’m not twisting your

I’m not twisting your words I’m simply reading between the lines. Come-on,
it’s obvious by your writing that you have extreme contempt for those in
control of your country, at least have the honestly to admit it, I bet you do
in those closed meetings of yours, don’t you?

‘All I have seen so far is some very boring attempts at sarcasm and
extracting the urine.’

Hey, It’s a slow day, but that’s actually funny because in real life I think
Mr. Peterson does in fact sometimes ‘extract the urine.’

Submitted on Wed, 2008-04-16 18:04
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 351
Joined: 2006-01-11

BP PUKE

Quote: "Why don't you tell me why I, or anyone else for that matter,
should
even try to accept the deviant perverts and their blatant sodomy.The
fact that the homosexual issue was only part of my reasoning that
western democracy is fake."

Because
acceptance of another's views, whether you agree or not, is the root of
democracy. You should accept their right to hold beliefs, in
opposition to your own, even if you view them as deviant, in the same
vein as you would expect others to accept your racist attitudes, which
I hold to be deviant and perverted. As long as you do not act on
your deviant views, by randomly shooting queers, you have the right to
hate anyone you wish. As long as homosexuals don't tie you to a
headboard and have forcable anal sex with you, they have an identical
right to their beliefs. Democracy is open to all views, opinions,
beliefs, races, colors, and creeds. Even those as deviant as
yours. If you honestly hold views that are communist, capitalist,
atheist, racist, pacifist, religious, or whatever, (even if you believe
in the Loch Ness monster, and universal mind control by little green
space aliens) you have that right. Every last thought, every last
belief, should be allowed in a free, democratic society. And each
should be open to scrutiny, agreement, or ridicule. The only
restriction is illustrated as follows: I can believe I have a
right to rob banks, or strangle homless people. However, if I act
on those beliefs, and cause harm to others, I do not have that right,
and society should send me to prison.

Submitted on Wed, 2008-04-16 18:06
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 351
Joined: 2006-01-11

Chris

That made me laugh. I have, indeed, dealt with my fair share of
urine over the years. Feces too. The worst, however, is a
rumen filled with half digested green goo. Scoop a double handful
of green goo into a ziplock bag, for each of 20 or 30 deer, on a hot
August afternoon, and urine is like Channel # 5 in comparison.

Submitted on Wed, 2008-04-16 18:10
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 8
Joined: 2008-04-15

Now we are getting somewhere.

alan.peterson wrote:

So what you are in effect saying is that you think I am an ignorant skin colour racist, a common misconception brought about by people who feel the need to label us all as stupid hicks. I believe that all the worlds races are under threat of eventual extinction because of global capitalism and the enforced cultural "enrichment" of indigenous people. I am a Nationalist but my policies are socialist, in other words I believe in distribution but only among our own people. I also believe that the world would be a much more peaceful place if so many different cultures were not forced to inhabit the same places, but were lowed to exist within their own nations. It is religious, cultural, and to a lesser extent political differences that have been responsible for every conflict since time began,and ultimately it will bring bout the destruction of our planet.

Something very drastic will have to take place, things cannot continue as they are. It is not about any particular group, but you mix them up and? Well look around, there is death and destruction everywhere.

BTW, I am active in promoting my political beliefs, but i have not hurt anybody in th process nor do I intend to.

For Race & Nation

http://bpp.org.uk

For Race & Nation

http://bpp.org.uk

Submitted on Wed, 2008-04-16 18:23
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 351
Joined: 2006-01-11

Quote: "I am a Nationalist

Quote: "I am a Nationalist but my policies are socialist, in other words I
believe in distribution but only among our own people. I also believe
that the world would be a much more peaceful place if so many different
cultures were not forced to inhabit the same places, but were lowed to
exist within their own nations."

And,
as an American, a nation seen as the Great Melting Pot, I completely
disagree. I know how diverse peoples, diverse cultures, diverse
beliefs, can live side-by-side, in peace, working together toward a
common goal. I see it in practice daily. It is, in my
opinion, the chauvinistic, jingoistic, I'm
right-and-anyone-who-disagrees-is-wrong, attitudes, especially those of
nationalistic, or racist, or devout religious fanatics, that pose the
real danger. Tell me... What war, in what century, anywhere
on earth, was initiated by a large gathering of drag-queens?

Submitted on Wed, 2008-04-16 18:42
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 932
Joined: 2005-11-22

‘Something very drastic

‘Something very drastic will have to take place, things cannot continue as
they are. It is not about any particular group, but you mix them up and? Well
look around, there is death and destruction everywhere.’

How do people like you explain all those diverse groups living in Canada and
the US living and working peacefully with one another? I look around a city and
country full of different ethnic groups, and all I can see are peace, prosperity,
and a bright future.

Must suck to be you.

Submitted on Wed, 2008-04-16 18:54
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 8
Joined: 2008-04-15

Suck? Not at all. :)

chris9234 wrote:

Must suck to be you.

I see that the bar was not raised for long, no worries, it was night time here and I was asleep.

I was in the US during the last two weeks of January, and I have friends and Comrades throughout the world. There is racial tension everywhere, but the way White Nationalists deal with this depends very much on how much they are persecuted by the authorities in each particular nation. If I was in Canada right now I doubt I would be involved in much if any political debate, in fact the draconian laws in Canada made to silence our resistance would have forced me well underground. That doesn't mean I wouldn't be there, it just means that I would be operating a great deal more covertly. I have seen too many good people, people like Bill Noble and even revisionist Ernst Zundel persecuted in Canada without any good reason. In the US I have met many Comrades who have done four years in the pen and been released, but are under the threat of doing another thirty six years if they break certain conditions, of course that means they can no longer be effective. I used to be in contact with the great David Lane, look t what your wonderful democratic free country did to him. And so my answer to both yours and the previous gentleman's message is thus.

Wherever you think you can see the benefit of "diversity", people like me are being persecuted. You think you are right, guess what? So do we! One day I promise that the boot will be on the other foot, I may not be alive to see this, but while I'm here I will give 100% to help bring it along for future generations.

It doesn't "suck to be me", I am very happy being a top BPP Official, and working hard every day to promote our beliefs and bring new people on board. I have enjoyed meeting people in other countries and finding out what they are doing, what works for them. I speak at meetings and often chair them, I lead marches, demo's and vigils, I write and see my work published in our magazines and on our websites. I put leaflets in peoples mail boxes and propaganda stickers in public places, I travel my country and the world.

And when I fall I know there are many many more ready to pick up my standard and continue to march towards our ultimate victory. It is only a matter of time.

14 Words

For Race & Nation

http://bpp.org.uk

Submitted on Thu, 2008-04-17 11:31
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 932
Joined: 2005-11-22

Feelings of persecution,

Feelings of persecution, visions of
grandeur and martyrdom, seems you have much more in common with Islamic
fundamentalists than you’re willing to admit. Throw in a ‘hail Allah’ instead
of a ‘hail Hitler’ and I bet we’d have difficulty telling you apart.

Submitted on Thu, 2008-04-17 12:59
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 8
Joined: 2008-04-15

Insults are all very well but...

chris9234 wrote:

I posted my theories on so called democracy here thinking I might get a rational, or dare I say intelligent debate. It has long been suggested that even the most brainwashed liberal droid retains the power of reason. I have attempted to raise issues with you guys and in return you have hurled very weak attempts at insults back in my direction. Disappointing, but only because I felt like change from the tepid environment of Stormfront and VNN Forums, I wanted to see if the other side could put forward any kind of argument that was intelligent, realistic, and didn't sound like some soppy flower power song from the 1960's.

Never mind, I'll look in from time to time, but there is no original ideology here.

14 Words.

For Race & Nation

http://bpp.org.uk

For Race & Nation

http://bpp.org.uk

Submitted on Thu, 2008-04-17 13:57
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 932
Joined: 2005-11-22

Since I’ve been member on

Since I’ve been member on this board I’ve seen democracy debated from its
roots to all its current forms, to whether it’s more of an ideal or a form of
government, and just about everything in between. If you’ve failed to inspire a
conversation on your ideas of democracy, than that’s your failure, not ours.

Submitted on Thu, 2008-04-17 14:07
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 8
Joined: 2008-04-15

Aw bless yer little cotton socks!

chris9234 wrote:

The reason for the lack of debate here is more to do with the lack of original ideology. It may even be to do with a lack of any real intellect on the part of the forums members, but I would have to give up far too much of my time here to be sure.

There is no real democracy in this world, not if democracy is to be interpreted as real freedom of speech and individual rights.

You lose...

For Race & Nation

http://bpp.org.uk

Submitted on Thu, 2008-04-17 14:18
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 932
Joined: 2005-11-22

"I would have to give up far

"I would have to give up far too much of my
time here to be sure.”

Yes I know, especially when there are
people's mailboxes to stuff.

‘There is no real democracy in this world,
not if democracy is to be interpreted as real freedom of speech and individual
rights.’

This is just a tip, but perhaps you ought to figure out what
democracy is before you start a discussion of whether or not it exists,

Submitted on Thu, 2008-04-17 14:39
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 351
Joined: 2006-01-11

BP PUKE

Quote: "There is no real democracy in this world, not if democracy is to be interpreted as real freedom of speech and individual rights."

No one has prevented your freedom of speech. Neither here nor at any public forums (implied in your comment that you are a traveling speaker). You have the freedom of speech. What you don't have (and many of your ilk misinterpret this as a curb on free speech) is "equal merit." Nowhere in "freedom of speech" is there a guarantee, or promise, that crackpot ideas have immunity from ridicule. Free speech means you can say, pretty much, whatever you want. But, it does not mean the listening audience has to give your ideas equal merit. They don't. And I won't.

If your version of free speech requires everyone to approve every idea expressed, equally, without criticism, you completely misunderstand "Freedom of Speech."

And just because someone is jailed for inciting criminal activities, that is not an invalidation of free speech either. Bin Laden did not have the right to say, "Let's fly some planes into the WTC" because his words incited criminal activities, making him guilty of the crime, even though he did not pilot a plane. If imprisoning him restricts his Individual Rights, tough. Imprisonment for crimes is not evidence of restrictions on ensured, Constituionaly guaranteed rights.

If you need complete approval, by an audience, to fit your definition of free speech, you came to the wrong place. Go tell it to your skinhead buddies. If you came here to toss out ideas for criticism and discussion, and to exercise your right to speak freely, you came to the right place.

Submitted on Thu, 2008-04-17 16:32
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 932
Joined: 2005-11-22

He thinks he’s a victim

He thinks he’s a victim Alan, so of course
he’s going to act like one. Rub a little sand in his face and he gets all upset
and runs away.

He was right about the lack of intellect of many of the members
here though, particularly Alan, owly, IM and T…did I mention Alan?

Submitted on Thu, 2008-04-17 17:11
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 8
Joined: 2008-04-15

Full of shit! Thought as much!

I now understand why it is taking a little while longer to show people what is blatantly happening to them and to their countries right under their noses.

Ok, I already knew the answer to this, but with such freedom of information on the Worldwide Web, I thought perhaps people might have started to wake up. It seems so ridiculous to me that someone actually recommended this forum as somewhere that I would find smart politically aware individuals who might give me a "run for my money". The fact is that this place is full of what we usually refer to as "sheeple", those who lindly wait for something or someone to follow and do so without question.

So here are a few home truths for you to chew on as I leave this place and close the door behind myself.

People are NOT the same wherever you go.

Equality only holds us back because it prevents the strongest candidates from getting the job.

Six million Jews did not get murdered in WW2, there were not that many Jews in Europe in the 30' and 40's, and the amount of survivors makes the fallacy even more ridiculous.

There is absolutely no reason why we should have ever sent our men and women to fight in Iraq or Afghanistan. Nothing that is happening in those regions is any business of ours.

The world press, media, banking system, stock markets, and governments are all run by rich powerful Jews like the Rothschild's and Rockefeller's, your vote changes nothing.

The truth is no defense.

One day the world will know that Adolf Hitler was right!

For Race & Nation

http://bpp.org.uk

Submitted on Thu, 2008-04-17 17:24
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 351
Joined: 2006-01-11

BP PUKE

Like I said, you are perfectly free to express your crackpot,
skinhead, neo-nazi crap here, since this site allows free speech.
However, you are not automatically granted the equal merit for your
stupid ideas. I will support, and grant merit to reasonable,
intelligent, well thought out ideas, even if I disagree with
them. You offer nothing that I have not heard (and rejected as
total, racist bullshit) in the past.

The whole world
would have supported the trial, conviction, and execution of Adolf
Hitler, following World War II, except he was too much of a chickenshit
to face the music.

Submitted on Thu, 2008-04-17 18:31
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Iron Mike

Posts: 918
Joined: 2004-10-07

Good riddance to gutless Nazis

Quote:

...as I leave this place and close the door behind myself.

Wow. Don't let that door hit you in the a$$. I have new respect for ALL of the regulars here...even those like Chris who do not rise to my level of superior intellect.

That guy was a complete nut job and that's one conclusion upon which I believe both Liberal and Conservative can agree. Freedom of Speech is not freedom from challenge or from the consequence of speech.

Boring and enraging Liberals with the truth since 2004

Submitted on Thu, 2008-04-17 18:49
login or register to post comments | email this comment

jayfromtexas

Posts: 504
Joined: 2005-11-28

Keep the faith, BPPUK

BPPUK wrote:

I now understand why it is taking a little while longer to show people what is blatantly happening to them and to their countries right under their noses.

I admire your passion and resolve. It is not everyday that one finds a racist, homophobic, anti-semitic socialist who has come to terms with the inherent contradictions of such a convoluted world view. I can sense your frustration here, and I sincerely recommend that you seek out a more receptive audience than these politically correct Englishmen and their North American derivatives. I think a man of your mettle would fit quite nicely in either Hamas or Hezbollah. They run soup kitchens and free clinics out of the mosques, they don't like gays, have little patience for the tolerance of democracy, and they absolutely despise Jews. I understand they have priority hiring for anyone with experience in explosives, so be sure and include that on your resume. You would probably need to overcome your racism to make it work, but sooner or later you need to learn to get along with someone.

I hope this helps.

Submitted on Thu, 2008-04-17 19:13
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 351
Joined: 2006-01-11

Jason

Welcome back.

Submitted on Thu, 2008-04-17 19:19
login or register to post comments | email this comment

jayfromtexas

Posts: 504
Joined: 2005-11-28

Welcome back?

I am sure that Chris will be echoing that sentiment shortly. I really liked the way you two joined forces to tag team the Nazi, and when you ran him off, you went back to mocking each other. You guys still crack me up. O.k., I am going back to work now. Later guys.

Submitted on Thu, 2008-04-17 19:26
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 351
Joined: 2006-01-11

Time for me to go to work too.

I need to get to work in a couple minutes too. I gotta go up the hill and shoot pistols and shotguns till well after dark. Semi-annual firearms qualification. Y'all have fun.

Submitted on Thu, 2008-04-17 19:33
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Joe.Bloggs

Posts: 275
Joined: 2005-04-21

Wait a minute...

So my family members - going back many generations - have fought and died for Queen and country so that this idiot has the freedom to believe others should be denied their freedoms?

Oh, brave new world...

Submitted on Thu, 2008-04-17 23:29
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 496
Joined: 2006-09-23

iam wondering

jayfromtexax

why u wrote about hamas or hezbullah, did they ever speak about hitler or even care about him or about what he did to urope. I think frankly you are the racist , those people are created to defend their countries from occupation and it is different situation from hitler and what he did and he envade others , but in those islamic groups , they were invaded and so they have responsibility to defend .

i think you have to read well history and how conflicts started .

Submitted on Fri, 2008-04-18 00:04
login or register to post comments | email this comment

BigC

Posts: 189
Joined: 2007-09-03

Now that our muddled friend has gone....

Quote:

Better to concentrate on making democracy work than in deriding it's lack of perfection.

I agree, though I'm somewhat puzzled to see that view in a professed communist.

Mike

Two of the great canards of our time:

1 That socialism is incompatible with democracy

2 That capitalism is organically connected to democracy

Neither of these stands up to any serious historical analysis. In fact you'll probably find both contradicted in a few days of tuning in to the news media.

Democracy has and has had many forms from small group consensus through to the bourgeois form (I would call it plutocracy or even kleptocracy) that you subscribe to - and there are many variants in between and beyond. All of these have arguments in favour of them and against them: features which make them more democratic or less democratic. It's usually a matter of compromise between ideal and practicality and perception.

Ultimately, someone is a democrat if he accepts that everyone, including himself is capable of being wrong and embraces a political system which allows for that.

So no epiphany Mike. Not today anyway.

Submitted on Fri, 2008-04-18 09:11
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Iron Mike

Posts: 918
Joined: 2004-10-07

stop playing the race card!

Quote:

I think frankly you are the racist , those people are created to defend their countries from occupation...

Regardless of how they started, Nazis, Hamas, Hezbollah all share an irrational ideology of hatred and violence. None can be reasoned with and all lead to (in Ron's words) pyrotechnic nihilism.

Frankly Abdulksaida, I suggest it's racist of you to inject race in a discussion of ideology. But I'm not surprised because you have consistently proven to see the world through other than palestinian lenses.

Boring and enraging Liberals with the truth since 2004

Submitted on Fri, 2008-04-18 14:02
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 496
Joined: 2006-09-23

it is not ideology

iron mike

it was not ideology which was discussed, i notice and as i know that if any muslim groups defend their countries or land , the media in the west portrait us as terrorists and as racist and as antisemntic and many auful names and all are hatrets towards muslims and that is racists.

today i hear about actor brigete bardo as she accused muslims of many false allegations and they want in france to sue her and she propagate for hatret towards muslims.

yes sometimes i see the world through the palestinains lense as iam among them and try to interpret many things as i can see it is against us unjustly and unfairly.

The world really now teach us racists from our suffer, before even me i dont like to differentiate between any races as all are humanbeings created from one God, but after the injust to our palestinians issue and before 2 days in 24 hours , 24 palestinians were killed ( martyees ) , and many are children and if you saw in TV their wives , kids, sisters and relatives and how tears and screms were, then you will know really how racists now act .

Submitted on Fri, 2008-04-18 14:45
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 496
Joined: 2006-09-23

what do u think of jewish state

iron mike

iam not playing with race card, israel is the one which play with it. what is u opinion on establishing now only jewish state and they want now arabs and muslims and especially palestinians to proove that think

is that racist or not ? can u please answer me

that is a trap to us all , they need the world to admit that israel is a jewish state as to forbid palestinians refugee to return back their homes, and also to evacuate the remaining muslim palestinians and christans from palestine .

who is racist mr iron mike? who teach us now lessons of racism. ?!!!

Submitted on Fri, 2008-04-18 14:52
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 551
Joined: 2005-12-24

Why dont you start your own

Why dont you start your own thread and quit hi-jacking every conversation.

Submitted on Fri, 2008-04-18 15:00
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 496
Joined: 2006-09-23

are u talking to me candace?

i dont understand what u mean of hi-jacking every conversation?

i asked questions to iron mike,and if he likes to answer it , it is up to him, or if he dont want to answere it is also up to him also.

what is the difference of starting an own thread or asking questions which of course answers of them , whould give clear picture about everyone thinking and how he or she constitute their ideas.

yes iam palestinians but we dont hijacke anyone idea or land or thoughts also.

Submitted on Fri, 2008-04-18 15:42
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 551
Joined: 2005-12-24

yes, I am talking to you

If you want to talk about how great Hamas is and how immoral anyone is who disagrees with you then start a thread about that so then people can click with the thought in mind of discussing that with you. Otherwise why dont you share what you/Hamas thinks about democracy? Inform us. Let us know.

Submitted on Fri, 2008-04-18 16:11
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 496
Joined: 2006-09-23

iam an independent person

candace

iam not related to any group in this world and i dont like to admire anyone , all have their faults, but faults differ.

when it comes to occupation of a land and innocent people, so others who defend their countries wheather they are hamas, fath, independent gorups or also some western peoeple whom are with palestinians, so hat is moral and the immoral is to defend the aggressor and find many execuses for killing and stealing other land, that is the difference.

if any other group occupy any other land even if they are not arabs or muslim , so i will stand with the truth and i will not defend my people also if they are wrong, i will stand with the truth even if it is with a jewish, or christian against my fellow muslim if it is correct, but as i see and the world notice, the truth is not with those people darling, and becasue of that i defend the element of defence in each group and i didnt specify hamas or other, you want me only to say how great is hamas, and only i will say that people elect her as they dont want more corruption and they must not be punished for their choose after limiting choises.

i dont think you can understand those issues as you and i will not blame you didnt live that situation. i think may be if you live that situation may be you will elect also satan ( and sorry for that ) you cant put u self in their places

they elect hamas and why nobody want to respect their choose. it was democracy, but as i know the democracy applied in the west different than the one applied in east, so frankly i dont now beleive in any democracy, all it is fake and it depends on personal benefits only.

i think now nobody encourage democracy even we once dream of it and we were envying west for that, but after we practise their democracy in iraq and afganistan and palestine, so we dont beleive in their democracy ( sorry dont be angry )

Submitted on Fri, 2008-04-18 16:33
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 551
Joined: 2005-12-24

ok well... maybe I will

ok well... maybe I'll respond on another thread. ;-)

Submitted on Fri, 2008-04-18 17:10
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 496
Joined: 2006-09-23

democracy and homosexuality

i read now alan quote as " The only
restriction is illustrated as follows: I can believe I have a
right to rob banks, or strangle homless people. However, if I act
on those beliefs, and cause harm to others, I do not have that right,
and society should send me to prison."

so u agree that not all beleives are correct and will serve the comunity. homosexulity would ruine the society and will encourage less of people.

if most people become homosexual , so how we will get more springs to serve the society and how we will be normal. we cant let some groups to ruin the society, right is right and wrong is wrong.

if u allow homosexual , can u allow it to your daughter or close relatives, i think you will feel shame as the normal ennate is against that, so we have to say the truth not encouraging these things as rights to them, it will eventually destroy all the society which all of us have role in keeping it safe and clean.

Submitted on Fri, 2008-04-18 17:25
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 351
Joined: 2006-01-11

Alakazam

abdulksaida wrote:

if most people become homosexual ...

But, they won't. So, your entire arguement goes out the window.

Do you actually think, that if two homosexuals move into a home next door to you, you will begin to develop stirrings in your loins for others of your same sex? Get real. Or, are you so morally weak that you can't repress your own homosexual feelings?

I seriously doubt that the human birth rate is in danger of dropping to zero, due to rampant homosexuality.

Submitted on Fri, 2008-04-18 18:36
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 551
Joined: 2005-12-24

alan

just wondering if you knew that abdulksaida is a woman

Submitted on Fri, 2008-04-18 18:47
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 351
Joined: 2006-01-11

Candy

Yes. I knew she claims to be. Although I suspect she's really a she-male.

Submitted on Fri, 2008-04-18 18:50
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 496
Joined: 2006-09-23

your suspection is false

of course , normal people will not be like abnormal ones

never we will be like those homosexuals as relegious people wont be like that, but at the same time they are hurted by seeing them beside them and of course we will moove from that neighbor not becasue we will be like them as really it is disgusting feelings . I dont know how u think muslims will be like that, no real muslim will be homosexual as it is forbidden and then we will be fire to hell

thanks God , iam a women and leave your suspect to your self and candace know well . i never claim something wich is not real . shame on you to say that she-male before knowing.

i told u candace that he is racist or you dont want to beleive me as he put false judjement as i think becasue iam muslim or iam wrong ?

Submitted on Fri, 2008-04-18 19:47
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 496
Joined: 2006-09-23

our beleive

also we muslims beleive if we dont tell the truth about the forbidden of homosexuality or try to tell the society, so God will punish all of us. we have to say the right thing and the pure innate.

if you are weak to tell the truth, so dont accuse others and as i told u if my neighbor is like that , which cant happen thanks God in our muslim countries , i will moove to another place, as also if i have kids which i dont have , or for my sister kids, i dont want them to see that disgusting things which is totally bad and forbidden in all relegions.

yes i remember my husband ( mercy on him) many times told me about homosexuality between german women and also german men and of course some of them, and i really dont beleive , but as he was living in germany , everything can happen.

by the way , even if it is out of discussion, i read that in germany they did a recent poll in high school and most of students and people dont like forigners in theri country and find it bad and iam living in a muslim country which has 150 nationality in it living peacfully and with no hatret .

may be that is related also to democracy, but also i will not deny that some people also dont like forigners only if they commit crimes and bad acts, but if they live peacfully and participate well in the community, so they are wellcomed.

Submitted on Fri, 2008-04-18 19:58
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 551
Joined: 2005-12-24

abdulksaida wrote:i told u

abdulksaida wrote:

i told u candace that he is racist or you dont want to beleive me as he put false judjement as i think becasue iam muslim or iam wrong ?

I suspect Alan thought he was being funny.
I don't recall you saying that Alan was a racist. I thought you said jayfromtexas was. They are probably both racists, anyhow. so I guess it doesnt matter. :-)

Alan,

For crying out loud try to be civilized.

Submitted on Fri, 2008-04-18 20:07
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 351
Joined: 2006-01-11

I'll try

Candace wrote:

Alan,

For crying out loud try to be civilized.

Candy, you're a better man than I am, Gunga Din. Sometimes I just can't contain myself when blatant ignorance rears up in my face. It just flies all over me.

Submitted on Fri, 2008-04-18 20:34
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 351
Joined: 2006-01-11

Once again...

abdulksaida wrote:

if my neighbor is like that...

Some are. Whether you know it or not.

abdulksaida wrote:

...which cant happen thanks God in our muslim countries...

Complete nonsense.

Submitted on Fri, 2008-04-18 20:37
login or register to post comments | email this comment

owly

Posts: 650
Joined: 2004-07-31

Homosexuals

I have read some utter crap on this site over the years, but the biggotted, ignorant and disgusting view on homosexuals expressed by abdulksaida really take the biscuit.

Unlike being a Christian, Jew or a Moslem, which is a belief and therefore open to question and comment, a homosexual is created so: he/she is so because God created them so. Perhaps abdulksaida can explain why she is so keen to persecute those whom God himself has created ?

Her remarks disgust me for another reason. I have talked to many Gay people over the years who live in Moslem lands and I know the wretched, miserable lives they are forced to lead because of people like abdulksaida. They are persecuted and hounded, living always in fear. In Saudi Arabia and in Iran it is not uncommon for homosexuals to be executed for no other reason than they are Gay. I have mentioned a number of cases on this site not all that long ago.

It is a frightening thought that a supposedly intelligent woman like abdulksaida can write such utterly disgusting and disgraceful nonsense. It shows that even in the 21st century being a homosexual is still 'the love which dare not speak its name'.

Submitted on Sat, 2008-04-19 14:37
login or register to post comments | email this comment

Posts: 551
Joined: 2005-12-24

gee... thanks Alan

Alan,

“I will support, and grant merit to reasonable,
intelligent, well thought out ideas, even if I disagree with
them. "

How about if you debate the ideas and not attack the person? Even better don’t make comments about a person’s private life with their spouse.
I know she was speaking against homosexuality but she wasn’t talking about your sexuality or your sex life with your wife.
It’s not too encouraging to share ideas with people that will sink to that level when they disagree. I noticed you didn’t make any mention of what you thought BPPUK would be like in bed.

I’ve talked to abdulksaida through email over the last year, at times often; she is a decent person and didn’t deserve to be talked to that way.

Submitted on Sat, 2008-04-19 14:48
login or register to post comments | email this comment