The truth does not win; the truth is just what is left when everything else is wasted
The truth does not win; the truth is just what is left when everything else is wasted
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Obama Hope Beating Clinton HelpDreams or Experience
The problem with Obama is that he has very little experience to go along with his so called "charisma" and America needs someone with the experience that can start working on the vast amount of problems we have on day one of their taking office. I don't think Obama is going to be able to do that. As an Independent voter I would have to go with the most experienced person even though that may not be a very good choice either.
Submitted on Thu, 2008-02-14 21:52
reply Experience ?
Well if you want experience vote Republican !! A return to the sleazy Clinton years is hardly what is needed now. Best that those two just become a dusty footnote in the history books.
Submitted on Thu, 2008-02-14 22:06
reply What Does Owly Want To Experience?
Owly; Last year I wrote that Clinton would be a satisfactory President, but McCain would be a great one.It still holds true. HIllary is competent but has had the tendency to polarize people. She could polarize Democrats and Republicans especially if Pelosi and Reid are still the Democratic leaders in Congress stirring the pot. Also, I don't think the Clintons are as popular within the party as one would think. They did nothing for the Democrats while they sat in the White House. The Democrats lost their majorities in Congress and VP Gore was not elected to succeed (Clinton did not carry his home state of Arkansas in 2000. Gore did not carry his state of Tennessee). That may be why Democrat bigwigs have not lined up en masse behind Hillary. McCain is liked on both sides of the aisle (I did not say universally). He and Hillary are friends. He had the guts to criticize the Rumsfeld commitment to Iraq as inadequate and then approve the surge when no one else would. He hurt his campaign as a result. Now that the surge is working. he deserves the nomination.
Submitted on Fri, 2008-02-15 05:28
reply Experience?
As an Independent I think the Republicans have shown us what they have the last eight years and McCain is just a carbon copy of GWB so that would just be more of the same. The Democrats are not much better but I would never vote for a candidate on the basis of their personal life. Because let's face it, no one's perfect on either side. Now the question is " Who does that leave to vote for"?
Submitted on Fri, 2008-02-15 12:14
reply
Just testing...
To see if threaded comments now work?
Cheers, Felix Cohen Tech Director - openDemocracy
Submitted on Mon, 2008-02-25 15:13
reply I do not think (looking
I do not think (looking across the pond) that Hilary Clinton would make a 'satisfactory President'. Some of us remember her messing around in health care and the unworkable ideas she came up with. That lacked political sense, and it would seem from the campaign trail that she does indeed have little political sense. And also we have seen the nasty and evil minded nature of the Clintons clearly on display: they will do anything and say anything if it serves their ends. They are both basically sleazy, dishonest and dishonourable. As to McCain I would agree with your remarks. Had I a vote I think he would get it. Right man, right time, right job.
Submitted on Fri, 2008-02-15 10:06
reply Sprawlbores once again
Joel, [quote]The least educated, least sophisticated and least wealthy along with Hispanics are sipping Clinton’s fizzled-out drink. The most educated, most privileged, and most financially successful along with African-Americans are gulping down Obama’s charismatic pick-me-up.[/quote] Nice bit of race-baiting and generalizing, with a bit of class warfare thrown in for good measure! [quote]After two years it will be clear that the new president will have failed to extract the US from Iraq, will have failed to deliver universal health care, will have failed to address illegal immigration, will have done nothing to get a new and serious 9/11 investigation, will have done nothing to stop middle-class-killing globalization...[/quote] That's not a progressive agenda, it's a socialist one. But since you like neither socialist candidate, argue in favor of cynicism, and rail against anyone voting at all, you'll likely achieve your self-fullfilling prophecy and your agenda will fall on the dustbin of history. I'm encouraging all Democrats follow your example and let the rest of us elect President McCain. You can be part of the process or a victim of it. You prefer the latter; I don't.
Submitted on Fri, 2008-02-15 21:57
reply McCain is hardly a Bush clone!
[quote]As an Independent I think the Republicans have shown us what they have the last eight years and McCain is just a carbon copy of GWB so that would just be more of the same.[/quote] Not sure where you've been for the last 8 years, but McCain has hardly been GWB's biggest fan. He's been a thorn in the administrations side for most of Bush's time in office.
Submitted on Fri, 2008-02-15 21:55
reply I see the fight has turned a
I see the fight has turned a bit dirty - typical Clinton tactics. Per The Times today she is ahead in both Ohio and Texas. Does she get all the delegates if she wins the vote or are they apportioned out ? I think I read somewhere that odd states don't opporate a first past the post system but a sort of proprtional one. Is this so ? And who is willing now to predict who will gain the nomination ??
Submitted on Mon, 2008-02-25 18:39
reply Last gasp of the Clinton campaign...
The tighter the race, the dirtier the politics. Clinton has no choice but to go negative. The democratic primary is a strange system with state variations and most state delegates awarded proportionally. In Texas, the folks will actually have the chance to vote TWICE...once in the primaries and then the same night in the caucus. Momentum and youth vote favor double-voting in Obama's favor. It will be a strange turn of events if Obama is NOT the nominee at this point. Sould Clinton fight her way to the convention and attempt to take the nomination by super delegates when Obama has the popular vote, then watch for the real fun to begin. Just remember to board up your windows first, because there will be riots in the streets.
Submitted on Mon, 2008-02-25 22:17
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Hope mongering has been working much better than experience mongering. Now, the rest of the story….
As befits American culture, politics is all about slick selling to the masses. Hillary Clinton is selling Day-1 help to victims and sufferers. Barack Obama is selling effervescent hope to yes-we-can dreamers. This media hyped horse race is like a fight between diet Coke and diet Pepsi, artificially sweetened candidates devoid of real nourishment.
The least educated, least sophisticated and least wealthy along with Hispanics are sipping Clinton’s fizzled-out drink. The most educated, most privileged, and most financially successful along with African-Americans are gulping down Obama’s charismatic pick-me-up.
As to who is buying what, consider these data: Clinton won the non-college-educated voters by 22 points in California, 32 points in Massachusetts, 54 points in Arkansas, and 11 points in New Jersey. In a Pew Research national survey, Obama led among people with college degrees by 22 points. In Connecticut, Obama beat Clinton among college graduates by 17 points and in New Jersey by 11 points. And note this: 39 percent of Virginia and 41 percent of Maryland Democratic primary voters reported incomes of $100,000 or more – clearly well educated people that would favor Obama.
A simplistic conclusion is that the dumber you are the more likely you prefer the first woman president because you believe this experience-selling status quo, corporate candidate. And the smarter you are the more likely you prefer the first black president because you embrace the change-promises and platitudes from the more authentic, inspirational candidate with the short resume. Clinton supporters appreciate the 10-point-plan-for-every-problem political pragmatist. Obamatons swoon over the big-picture, unity-promising political messiah.
Working-class Clinton supporters are like weary shoppers seeking decent food at low prices at Safeway and good coffee at Dunkin’ Donuts. Obama yes-we-can-happy-facers gladly pay exorbitant prices for the Whole Foods experience and Starbucks shtick.
Here are some realities that neither group wants to face:
Both candidates are establishment insiders.
Both are corporate-state politicians. Note that Robert Wolf, the CEO of UBS Americas, a major banking company, has raised more than $1 million for the Obama campaign. Large sources of Obama money are law firms, investment houses, and real estate companies, and 80 percent of his donors are affiliated with business, compared to 85 percent for Clinton.
Neither are true progressives or populists, like Kucinich and Edwards.
Both Clinton the fighter and Obama the talker will sell out once they confront presidential realities. Why? Because plutocracies know how to retain power AFTER elections. After two years it will be clear that the new president will have failed to extract the US from Iraq, will have failed to deliver universal health care, will have failed to address illegal immigration, will have done nothing to get a new and serious 9/11 investigation, will have done nothing to stop middle-class-killing globalization, and will have utterly disappointed the vast majority of Americans. The president’s most pressing priorities will be lowering expectations and getting reelected, despite raising taxes. The only people truly surprised at all this will be those lacking what the Greeks thought is a virtue: cynicism.
Finally, for those seeking serious political system reforms, it is troubling that neither Clinton nor, especially, Obama have the courage to advocate needed constitutional amendments, such as replacing the Electoral College with the popular vote for president, getting all private money out of politics, making universal health care a right, and preventing presidential signing statements that undermine laws.
Knowing that Congress is unlikely to propose such amendments, these candidates could advocate using, for the first time, what the Founders gave us in Article V: a convention of state delegates that could propose amendments, as described at www.foavc.org. If Abraham Lincoln and Dwight D. Eisenhower could support using the convention option, certainly Day-1-Clinton and new-direction-Obama should.
[Contact Joel S. Hirschhorn through www.delusionaldemocracy.com.]