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McDonald's: No such thing as 'junk food'
Posts: Joined: 2004-05-05 Most of what I read and hear about McDonald's food is no more than junk propaganda. Why do the anti-McDonald's turn-outs hate McDonald's so much? Ok, some people don't think its food taste too great, but isn't that just a matter of... er, taste? Where is the evidence that McDonald's food is bad for you? I want to let openDemoracy and it's members into a not so well known scientific secret. There is actually, no such thing as 'junk food'. Professor Stanley Feldman of London University argues that 'junk food does not exist'. He says 'of course, some foods taste better or are more nutritious. But the idea that some contain nothing of value or are harmful is nonsense.' It's not just Feldman who has reservations about the idea of 'junk food', Professor Vincent Marks of Surrey University argues that junk food is a contradiction in terms. The truth is, all foods are actually good for you. Marks argues that the only bad food we know of, is food that has gone... er, bad. He says that 'McDonald's is considered bad, simply because it is wrong for our current fashion.' These two views must seem completly bizarre to the anti-McDonald's brigade, who bombard us with warnings about the 'dangers' of burgers, fizzy drinks, fast foods, salt, high fat, sugar, or anything else we consume on a daily basis. Feldman and Marks are not employees of the fast food industries. Nor can I say they are the type of people who eat Big Mac's and fries on a regular basis. They just (like me) object to the rubbish and misinformation, propagated by the anti-McDonald's turn-outs. I agree with Marks when he argues that the term 'junk food' is just an emotive and derogatory lable that means you don't approve. A lot of people think baked beans on toast is a form of junk food, even though it's ideal for antioxidants, fibre and so on. The real truth of the matter is McDonald's serves up a decent square meal. Obviously, if you ate super size McDonald's, 3 times a day, for a month your health would slowly deteriorate - but that is not exactly a startling revelation, is it? In fact, the anti-junk food lobby are the last socially accepted form of snobbery. Listen to the way they describe fast food - 'junk, unhealthy, fatty' - you can almost hear them passing moral judgement over those who do eat fast food. Anti-McDonald's protesters unconsciously mirror the snobbery of an earlier age. John Carey in his book 'The Intellectual and the Masses', tells of how writers like John Betjeman, George Orwell and TS Eliot bemoaned the coming of 'tinned food' because it represented the industrialised popular culture that they hated. All I really want, is to hear the truth about the food we eat - not junk propaganda.
Submitted on Thu, 2004-12-23 13:46
Re: McDonald's: No such thing as 'junk food'
Re: McDonald's: No such thing as 'junk food'
There are no links that I know of, but Vincent Marks make the same points in his book 'Is British Food Bad for You', Institute of Ecomonic Affairs, Health and Welfare Unit, London.
Submitted on Wed, 2005-01-05 18:37
reply Re: McDonald's: No such thing as 'junk food'
I'm not too sure about providing a square meal, but eaten in moderation as people are supposed to eat, fast food isn't nearly as bad for you as a lot of "health experts" would like to assert.
Submitted on Tue, 2005-04-05 16:11
reply Re: McDonald's: No such thing as 'junk food'
> I'm not too sure about providing a square meal, but
> eaten in moderation as people are supposed to eat,
> fast food isn't nearly as bad for you as a lot of
> "health experts" would like to assert.
Let me take you up on this one.
1) The health issue becomes real in terms of the overall balance and long-term eating patterns. One burger every so often won't kill you - but then, nor will one cigarette, or one botox injection. I'm no expert, but my understanding is that the major killer diseases in the affluent world - heart disease, obesity-related stuff, cancers, etc., - are many of them to a greater or lesser extent associated with too many Macdonalds-type meals over a protracted period - ie. low fibre, high fat/sugar/salt, etc. Like any company, McDonalds have a clear interest in getting people to consume the maximum possible amount of their product. In the sense that a single burger is like a snapshot of a long-term "junk diet," which McDonalds have a clear interest in promoting, it is legitimate, if perhaps imprecise, to describe it as "junk food." I don't think the term "junk food" is any more or less misleading, or objectionable, than the term "happy meal," for example.
2) The wider issues with Macdonalds are things like advertising practices, especially to children; workforce rights; ecological effects of large-scale beef farming; agricultural subsidies; and corporate power. I would say the subsidies issue is the most serious of these, but they're all substantive.
3) What's "food snobbery"?
Best wishes
Simon
Submitted on Thu, 2005-05-12 20:00
reply Re: McDonald's: No such thing as 'junk food'
I hate McDonalds
http://gohate.com/_view/part_directory/section_M/id_13
Submitted on Thu, 2005-12-01 16:18
reply Re: McDonald's: No such thing as 'junk food'
I think that McDonald's is very bad for you. I did a survey of 31 people(i know that isn't very much but it did the job)and 23 of them said that you should never eat at McDonald's.
Just last weekend, I went to McDonald's for a quick lunch with my family. The next morning everybody had indigestion,as did I. I was sick for 2 days throwing up my whole meal. I was miserable. It was then I decided never to eat at McDonald's again.
I am only in grade 7 but I have a very open mind about everything that is arguable( I'm not sure if that's even a word...:S,:P). McDonald's is just a cry for sickness. I don't know anyone who can eat there more than once a WEEK! It's a descarce that people are actually ruining their body's by eating this junk. McDonald's should have less restaurant around the cities because every where i turn there is 'McDonald's'!!!
Thank you for letting me speak out,
keep me informed.
:p <:o) Jess Breton (o:> q:
Submitted on Thu, 2006-03-09 01:59
reply Re: McDonald's: No such thing as 'junk food'
i didnt know it was THAT big a hazzard bout eating McDonalds stuffs.
Submitted on Thu, 2006-05-25 07:16
reply 
Well, apparently Mcdonalds
Well, apparently Mcdonalds is the prime target for the general junk food industry. Obesity is becoming an epidemic in the US and the UK. Prince Charles wants to totally ban McDonalds in England. Though it may be a knee jerk reaction, general education on the ills of junk food may be a better way of going about the issue. Also criticism on Charles' policy stems from the fact that Charles has a huge organic-food industry he wants to promote. Profits would go into his pocket.
Regardless, targeting one fast food chain and not educating the ignorant masses on health and nutrition is the wrong way to remedy the obesity epidemic.
Submitted on Sat, 2007-07-14 20:53
reply 
 Sorry, No
[quote]Obesity is becoming an epidemic in the US and the UK.[/quote]
There is no 'epidemic' of obesity. And even if wealthy countries are eating too much, of any kind of food, the problem is lack of physical conditioning not the food.
Submitted on Sun, 2007-07-15 01:46
reply Quote:There is no epidemic
[quote]There is no epidemic of obesity[/quote]
One cannot have serious discussion with people who make preposterous and obviously false statements, without documentation.
Good health requires balanced meals and physical exercise. Those who claim junk food covers the first part of that equation, deserve to be fed on McDonald exclusively.
Submitted on Sun, 2007-07-15 03:45
reply
Epidemic of obesity? Hatred against fat people more like
[quote]One cannot have serious discussion with people who make preposterous and obviously false statements, without documentation.[/quote]
The funny thing is, there is no obesity epidemic in the West - instead what we are witnessing is an ever growing culture of hatred against fat people. As I argued in the opening post Sieglinde, scientifically speaking, there is no such thing as 'junk food'. All foods are good for people, it is the snobbery of McDonald's critics like yourself who can bearly disguise your contempt for those who do eat Big Macs is the major problem here.
No doubt you probably think baked beans on toast is 'junk food' - in those two sentences you totally epitomise the current stale nature of the debate surrounding junk food and obesity. As far as you seemed to be concerned, junk food pretty much equals obesity, and anyone who doesn't go along with that idea should be forced to live on McDonald's food as if it were a punishment - but the truth is, McDonald's, scientifically speaking is not 'junk food', indeed, on the contrary, they actually serve up a square meal - indeed, I would love to see any evidence that suggests otherwise.
The obesity 'epidemic' is to all intents and purposes, an exaggerated myth perpetrated by skinny, intolerant, upper/middle class people, who have a pathological hatred of fat people.
So you think it is not possible to have a debate with people who make 'preposterous... false statements, without documentation' - but I would argue that it is precisely what you have done when you argue, in a round-about way that there is an 'obesity epidemic'. If there is, where is the evidence so we can all take a look at it?
Submitted on Wed, 2007-07-18 20:30
reply
Reply to Mirkokick
Hi Mirkokick, unfortunately, your post with the links to news articles has been accidentally erased from this thread. I am reposting my response to that post regardless.
My opinion is formed by criticisms of the application of the Body Mass Index (BMI) as an indicator of the health of a society. The diet and lack of physical activity of youth in particular are worrying for the health care systems, but the word 'epidemic' is inflammatory rhetoric. As reported in the articles you reference, the government seeks to 'ban' trans-fats as a solution rather than commit to education and support for healthy lifestyles, particularly in the youth segment. I mean why not bring back the Participaction program? That alone would help solve (and measure more accurately) the health and fitness of youth in Canada.
The problem with BMI:
[quote]The BMI is meant to broadly categorize populations for purely statistical purposes. As noted, its accuracy in relation to actual levels of body fat is easily distorted by such factors as fitness level, muscle mass, bone structure, gender, and ethnicity. People who are mesomorphic tend to have higher BMI numbers than people who are endomorphic, because they have greater bone mass and greater muscle mass, respectively, than do endomorphic individuals. (wikipedia)[/quote]
BMI is measured differently in different countries and is not in and of itself a reliable measure of health in a population, never mind making claims that billions are obese. Morbidly obese people (index of 40 or higher) represent about 2% of the population and account for much of the health cost attributed to the so called ‘obesity epidemic.’ The article you link to reports that the Canadian government counts 15% of the population as obese, using the BMI as an index. How many of the 15% are accurately rated by the BMI? Does the word ‘epidemic’ not present a problem given that the scale used to justify that assertion, is known to have flaws.
I would recommend you look further than the headlines for the facts. I looked into this during the project I was engaged in for further information and found that, although soft drinks and junk food are a problem, there are more reasons for the communal weight gain than are being reported. Calling this an epidemic instead of an increasing health problem is just inflammatory.
See here for the backlash against these studies:
http://www.consumerfreedom.com/article_detail.cfm/article/161
http://www.consumerfreedom.com/article_detail.cfm/article/162
Make sure you read the second link:
[quote] It's said that a lie can travel halfway round the world while the truth is putting on its shoes. Well, the truth about obesity is finally lacing up. And that's bad news for trial lawyers pursuing obesity lawsuits against food and beverage companies as well as the self-appointed diet dictators seeking extra taxes on foods they don't like.[/quote]
Submitted on Wed, 2007-07-18 01:38
reply No disguise here Courtney...Sorry, no apologies either.
['it is the snobbery of McDonald's critics like yourself who can bearly disguise your contempt for those who do eat Big Macs is the major problem here.']
While I agree that there is no such thing as bad food, I do believe there such a thing as a bad diet. And, Yes, I'm one of those people who despise and am disgusted by people who consume fast food as a regular part of their diet, or even worse, make it a large part of their children's diet, and not because they're fat mind you, but because their stupid, lazy, and fat.
Is that too judgemental? I really don't care, I'm equally indignant about people who smoke cigarettes, drink too much alcohol, or spend too much time watching television, but it's not about snobbery as you'd like us to believe, it's about recognizing that some forms of behaviour are deserving of our contempt. We no longer accept the irresponsible parent that smokes cigarettes in their enclosed car whilst their children sit in the back inhaling their second hand smoke, and hopefully when enough people speak up about the pathetic behaviour of feeding their children foods like McDonalds on a regular basis, this to will change.
Submitted on Wed, 2007-07-18 13:25
reply 
I love McDonald’s occasionally; I despise fat people frequently
There is nothing like a double quarter pounder and cheese with pickle and mayo; once every six months or so. Today's McDonalds provides a gang hangout for those nasty, cranky, free coffee drinking Senior Citizens who don't have anything better to do but moan about their ills and students before, during and after classes. The McDonald fries, Big Mac or the Apple Pie is not the issue, but the lack of a health mind, a healthy diet and daily exercise.
If you want to witness Americans at their most disgusting, go to one of our chain buffet eateries. Modern genetics has nothing on these human-pig hybrids as they push and shove for more of everything. Selfishness at it's finest ! It is truly a mess when 400 - 500 lb people fight over the last chicken strip when a new 60 lb tray of the same is being carried out the kitchen door. Ever sit next to a "large person" on a plane, bus or car? Sitting in the middle seat on a flight to anywhere next to someone who needs two seats is intolerable.
I understand that there are several real conditions that bring about uncontrollable weight gain, but I also have eyes. When I see George shoving chow down like there is no tomorrow and as I watch him leave the restaurant and get into his car which tips 45 degrees as he stuffs a twinkle into his gapping hole of a mouth; I am reminded that there is a problem. It is living problem. I want, what I want, when I want it. It is just that simply.
OK, so I’m not politically correct and really below empty on compassion for fat people. It is not a crime to feel pity for those who choose not to eat responsibily though it may be a deadly mistake to not speak more harshly to our loved ones, friends and fellows. Maybe, we as a society need to say to these tractor-trailer eating folks that, “Hey Fatty, slow down with the tons of food, you disgusting Pig, it will kill you!” Maybe we just don’t care enough to ridicule others for their crappy behaviors which lead to shortened life spans, high medical rates and terrible odors. I understand that fat people have limited range of motion, but damn, hire someone to wash the areas you can’t reach and tip them well; making this a routine would endear you to the world.
So what’s the bottom line, monthly liposuction? There was a time when obesity would not have been a disease, when most folks controlled their intake of food either by choice or necessity. Why do we applaud bad thinking and bad behavior under the guise of political correctness? Shame and guilt are as useful in moderation as the pain of a hand on a hot stove. If you care for an obese person, love them enough to scream, "You stupid fat person, stop eating or I will kill you !!!" I am off to McDonalds to make fun of the old folks, the fat people and anyone else I think needs a good dose of ridicule today. I am way to witty to be American, maybe I am really from Canada.
Submitted on Sun, 2007-07-22 00:10
reply eat this?
I thought I lost this post awhile ago. Here it is, in all of its delayed glory:
Fast food is basically fat, flavor enhancer, fillers, various forms of starch, and a token source of protein saturated in grease and salt.
Food becomes classified as junk when the nutritive value is outweighed by the amount of 'extras' in it.
Many poor people are fat because they can only afford the minimal percentaged real food items.
Its has 5%real juice everyone!.... yay
A low nutritive diet causes one to eat more food to get adequate nutrition. All of this combined with a sedantary life style will create a lethargic person looking for a sugar boost (or carb fix) with an exploding waist line. Insulin resistance/Type 2 diabetes anyone?
Eventually fast food won't be fast enough. There will be a stick of butter, with a cup of sugar, flavor packets, some flour and a pot of boiling grease at the end of the aisle. If there is something you want to deep fry, whoop there it is.
Submitted on Mon, 2007-07-23 02:21
reply
Candace
Good to see your excellent thoughts in this topic. You hit the nail on the head! My sugar intake is ghastly as in coffee, though it has kept the booze demons away for a number of years. I went home to Indiana last week and buried my Mom. It is OK now, she's at peace having a blast on a journey to somewhere. Just wanted you to know you helped. Oh, let me get my Starbuck's ready for work as I light a Kool Mild; have to get prepared to face the world. Cheers!
Submitted on Tue, 2007-07-24 12:38
reply Ron
Not to worry Ron, the caffeine gods recomend extra sugar with coffee when preparing to face the world.
Hey, I'm going to avoid participating online for awhile, and maybe reading here also. It does have a way of hooking me into spending more time sitting than I should. Next thing you know I'll be getting my breakfast from McDonalds. The potential downward spiral scenarios are just too awful to think about.
I also grow tired of fighting with my two oldest kids for a chance to use the computer. ;-)
I always win, but it takes some of the joy away from the whole process, if ya know what I'm saying.
I hope things continue to go well for you.
Candace
Submitted on Thu, 2007-07-26 17:21
reply
Candace
I can appreciate the time alotting, though why not gift yourself with a small laptop. Your children will love you for it and you'll be mobile enough not to feel like you are tied to a box. You're input here has been vital for me; a sense of reality and peace. forgive my con job of trying to keep you active, it's just my way. LOL
Submitted on Mon, 2007-07-30 16:57
reply Ron
based on my experience....
I don’t know, how state is in developed country. But in Russia McDonald’s acts in very honest way and provide a quite good food. I graduated from medical university and have a deal with over weighting problem in my practice. And also I have some extra kilo. That’s why I decided to get slimmer. McDonalds give customer special table in Russia. This table contain data about food’s component: amount of calories, protein, fat, carbohydrates, salt, K+ and so on. And as I decided to get slimmer and I couldn’t afford another restaurant for me, I started to explore this table very carefully. I was surprised, the food was absolutely ordinary ! If we takes food from supermarket and carefully and pedantically compare it with McDonalds’ food, we reveal, that McDonalds’ food at least isn’t worse for health (in the most cases McDonalds’ food is better for health, then supermarket foods). Moreover Russian McDonalds honestly give information about nutrition standard for some group of people in this table, but not many people follow this recommendation and than blame fast food about their weight problem. Following this recommendations I have lost 15 killo for 4.5 month. Frankly speaking there are some problem in the McDonalds table. First, there is to many salt in the food. Second, they give average nutrition standard – average between office employee and worker of hard physical action (as miner or diver). That’s why one needs to find his or her own nutrition standard and cut salt consumption out of McDonalds and drink more water. The GM food isn’t a problem, because all food is split in digestive tract into elementary particles, which are identical for GM and for non GM foods.
Submitted on Tue, 2007-08-07 15:30
reply Candice is a knowledgable
Candice is a knowledgable and common sense lady.
iggo is not a doctor. His simple-minded language suggests that.
I am shocked by the irresponsibility of those on these boards who promote junk food because they think it is the democratic thing to do. Junk food is cheap food, it cheapens those who consume it, for the great benefit of corporations whose CEO's scorn the food they sell and the people they sell it to.
Submitted on Tue, 2007-08-07 15:45
reply It's always insult, when someone blame you for lie...
But I swallow the insult.
[quote]iggo is not a doctor. His simple-minded language suggests that[/quote]
There is only one reason for my “simple-minded language” – I’m from Russia. It’s very interesting, how you express your thoughts and point of view, using Russian or any other languages : ). Surely, I’m not nutritionist, I’m GP. I’m not going to clear myself.
Of course, McDonalds food isn,t perfect balanced. But this is not so terrible, how someone try to present it. By the way, if you reject something, you have to propose something instead. Because if people have only critic and no proposal, this is only whimper.
There is a lot of dogma in nutrition subject. For example honey is a good for health. Honey contain a lot of carbohydrates and allergen, and it isn’t allowed to eat for diabetes and arteriosclerosis people.
A lot of people blame McDonalds in obesity, but they have never counted how much calories they consume and don’t know how much calories they need (this is concern not only McDonalds, this is general rule). If one find out this two things, one will be surprise – how few calories modern office employee need and how many ones consume.
I’m not strong in politic or “great benefit of corporation” – but I guess, that 50% of private Russian restaurant and supermarket product has lower quality then McDonalds food.
Submitted on Wed, 2007-08-08 15:07
reply
bbluejjay
By your logic Bluejay, corporations are to blame for individual's eating poorly and becoming obese. Do you blame others as a rule to justify your existence? Your words seem to say, yes. What a sad commentary for a human in 2007.
Submitted on Fri, 2007-08-10 11:17
reply Ron Allen
What a sad commentary on the state of literacy in the Western world that Ron Allen would fail to learn how to read before joining a discussion forum.
There must not be much to justify his existence if he feels the need to cheapen and smear others, to feel like his existence matters.
But then, those who eat junk feed never feel too good about themselves, hey Ron....
Submitted on Sat, 2007-08-11 03:14
reply Garbage in Garbage out
What do you think makes people fat? McDonald? No: Calories in excess. If you ingest more calories than you burn, the excess turns into fat, and this happens whether you eat too much carbohydrates, proteins, or fats, or a combination of all three.
The problem with the hamburger is that it tastes good, and if you add to it a portion of french fries, and you end the meal with a portion of apple pie a' la mode while drinking a large Coke, then you have a recipe for disaster.
The problem is also that there is a tendency for having several carbos-loaded meals during the day: At breakfast, at ten, at lunch, at 4 pm, at supper. And the more you get overweight the less you exercise. The percentage of overweight or fat children in European countries used to be much lower than in the US until about the 1970', particularly in Mediterranean countries, thanks to the Mediterranean diet. But now they have adopted the American diet and the percentages are the same.
Submitted on Sat, 2007-08-11 13:49
reply
bluejay
Diet of a Bluejay:
The blue jay is omnivorous. Sometimes a blue jay will raid a nest for eggs and young birds.
Behavior:
The blue jay is very aggressive and territorial. Groups of blue jays often attack intruders and predators. They often drive other birds away from bird feeders. The blue jay is also very vocal. It makes a number of different calls including its distinctive "jay- jay." It also growls, whistles and chatters.
Amazing what's in a name.
I have no power to cheap or smear you Bluejay and obviously you are too thin skinned to play with.
Submitted on Mon, 2007-08-13 00:23
reply Feeding habits of an Allen:
Just look at Ron Allen's avatar.
A picture's worth a thousand words...
Submitted on Mon, 2007-08-13 06:29
reply
Uncle
If you were a tad more creative than just copying my jabs, I might want to continue with this tirade. I would rather know why you are bound and determined to slay fast food producers for personal responsibility issues. Fast food is simply a convenience for eating quickly not a nutritional program.
Submitted on Mon, 2007-08-13 17:53
reply
There's no such thing as 'junk food' stupid!
bbluejjay,
Your missing the whole point of what I've been trying to argue - and that is, there is no such thing as 'junk food'. I realise it might be extremely difficult for you to grasp, or even comprehend such a notion - yes it's difficult, but not impossible. The truth is all food is good for all humans. The term junk food is a oxymoron - the term junk suggests that some food has no nutritional value, which is not true.
Most of what I've read on this tread (especially from bbluejjay) is nothing more than opinionated hogwash trying desperately to pass as informative views on what constitutes good health. It's not McDonald's CEO's that have a highly condescending and self-righteous view of the great mass of people who actually eat fast food, on the contrary, it is the snobbery of people like bbluejjay that are guilty of that charge. You can almost see bbluejjay looking down their nose at those who do choose to buy a hamburger instead of a pound of organic spinach.
Submitted on Mon, 2007-08-13 22:30
reply ??
[quote=Courtney]The truth is all food is good for all humans. [/quote]
Tell that to anyone with celiac disease, food allergies, diabetes, metabolic disorder, or high blood pressure. ( just to name a few)
[quote=Courtney]The term junk food is a oxymoron - the term junk suggests that some food has no nutritional value...[/quote]
Does it? Does it really? Who says?
Submitted on Tue, 2007-08-14 16:04
reply Courtney Hamilton's complex
Courtney Hamilton's complex of social inferiority does not constitute an argument on behalf of junk food. And he has not linked to a single credible source to refute the well tested observation that junk food is poor in nutritional value & fails to sate hunger which in turn causes people to consume more junk food which creates obesity, which in turn causes diabetis, heart diseases and other life-threatening ailments.
Is anyone on this site capable of arguing a case, without personal attacks, smears, false assumptions, insults, impuning of motives? Apparently not.
Keep going to McDonalds, Courtney. Your health is no concern of mine. When I have a craving for burgers, however, I go to a decent grocery store, the kind that does offer chemistry-free meats and produce, it tastes so much better! I'll then chose prairy-fed beef meat, and the freshest lettuce, tomatoes and onions available. I then get a meal that is scrumptious, as well as balanced and nutricious.
The smell alone at McDonalds is indeed noxious. If my being offended by it poses you a problem, Courtney, tough luck: if you can't make the effort to educate yourself on health and nutrition (and break bad habits), perhaps you deserve to be snubbed. As for me, I'd rather be dismissed as a snob by jackasses, than trash my intestines -- or my children's -- or my guests.
Submitted on Tue, 2007-08-14 04:08
reply
We are not what we eat
[quote] And he has not linked to a single credible source to refute the well tested observation that junk food is poor in nutritional value. [/quote]
Well, according to Stanley Feldman Emeritus professor of anaesthesiology at Charing Cross and Westminster Medical School, no matter what we eat, it all 'ends up as the same amino acids in your blood'. Apart from snobs, the professor argues that in the world of science and human biology it is 'universally known that whatever we eat, it is broken down into basic building blocks of food in the gut, before it can be absorbed into the blood'. In other words, it does not matter one iota if the meat in your burger is made from prime organic Angus beef rasied in the highland of Scotland, or if it was mashed-up scraps from an old Brazilian cow - it all ends up as amino acid.
There is a huge reality gap here - there is the snobby middle-class reality of self-righteous, puritanical opinions from bbluejjay - and there is the reality of not just one, but two very highly respected British scientists of human biology, professors Stanley Feldman and Vincent Marks.
You lazily continue to use the term junk food - so why don't you tell us what type of food exactly you would regard as junk? Is a hamburger junk, with no nutritional value? Do milkshakes have no nutritional value whatsoever? Where is your evidence, or 'credible source' that proves fast food causes 'diabetis, heart diseases and other life-threatening ailments'?
Submitted on Tue, 2007-08-14 10:25
reply Courtney wrote:There is a
[quote=Courtney]There is a huge reality gap here - there is the snobby middle-class reality of self-righteous, puritanical opinions from bbluejjay - and there is the reality of not just one, but two very highly respected British scientists of human biology, professors Stanley Feldman and Vincent Marks.[/quote]
snobby, self-righteous, and puritanical ? ;-)
< a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4304118.stm>another comment from Vincent Marks:
"There is no such thing as junk food, but there is such a thing as a 'junk diet'. The quantity of food consumed, over say a weekly period, is just as important as its quality."
So the quality is just as important as the quantity, eh? Interesting.
Submitted on Tue, 2007-08-14 16:14
reply Clinical Ecology
[quote=Courtney Hamilton]Well, according to Stanley Feldman Emeritus professor of anaesthesiology at Charing Cross and Westminster Medical School, no matter what we eat, it all 'ends up as the same amino acids in your blood'.[/quote]
[ Extracted perjoratives: ...snobs, snobby middle-class ...self-righteous, puritanical ...lazily ]
I hate to have to say this of someone who is working at my old medical school, but Prof Feldman is an anaesthetist, not a nutritionist, so he is a bit off his specialty here, and it shows. I was taught the "full breakdown into amino-acids" hypothesis at Westminster back in the 60s, but knowledge has moved on considerably since then.
It is known now that large chunks of foods (macromolecules) can get through into the bloodstream, and can set up various adverse reactions in the host.
It is also known that some pesticide residues are toxic to some individuals.
It is known that organic foods contain more micro-nutrients than industrially produced foods.
It is known that some people are adversely affected by some additives, mainly coal tar dyes and derivatives thereof. It is known that some highly processed foods are deficient in some micronutrients.
It is known that a growing number of people are intolerant of common foods.
There is a vast body of literature out this, under the heading of Clinical Ecology. The problem, as with all natural medicine, is that nobody can get a patent out of it, and randomised controlled double blind clinical trials are both expensive and very difficult and complex, so it is not studied as intensively as patent medicines. There is also a presumption among my colleagues that exclusion diets are difficult (they are not), that patients are reluctant to do them (they are not) and that they are not often effective (they are not), and that to do real medicine you need to give someone a pill.
For anyone who is really interested, British Society for Ecological Medicine is a good place to start. The book to read is Environmental Medicine in Clinical Practice (Anthony, Birtwistle Eaton and Maberley) BSAEMN Publications 1997.
"Dr Lawson regrets that he cannot enter into private correspondence".
Hope this helps.
PS I think it is closer to say that we are what we think we are, than to say we are what we eat.
Richard
Submitted on Thu, 2007-08-23 10:34
reply read and enjoy
Metabolic Syndrome
Celiac Disease
Are people with metabolic syndrome and celiac disease snobs if they choose to avoid food that will cause their condition to worsen?
[quote]"Drugs should be used to tread high blood pressure and people should not be made miserable by having to go on a salt free diet."[/quote]
lol that is some hilarious stuff..
Courtney, did you post this thread for the sole purpose of flaming people who use the term junk food to describe McDonalds?
Who cares?
Btw, Organic spinach rules. :-)
Submitted on Tue, 2007-08-14 17:13
reply I'm sorry, is this a private
I'm sorry, is this a private party, or can anyone join in the Courtney bashing?
Courtney
Definition: a postmodern individualist whose unwavering faith in modernity and deeply held suspicion and contempt for his fellow citizens has led him to conclude that the progress of civilization is being stunted by current knowledge and mainstream institutions.
Sees:
Global warming as ruse by intellectuals to forward their anti-modernist objectives.
Depletion of the world's resources as the attempt by the socialist left to criticize capitalism by masking it as a concern for the environment.
Current health issues as Middle class self-contempt manifested into snobbery and self-righteous indignation
Submitted on Tue, 2007-08-14 18:14
reply The junk Science of Feldman and Marks
Courtney Hamilton is not going to impress anyone by linking us to two notorious quacks, Stanley Feldman and Vincent Marks.
Stanley Feldman is an anesthesiologist, anesthesiologists have no professionally recognized competence in the field of nutrition.
As for his cronie, Vincent Marks, his links to the chemical, pharmaceutical and processed food companies have been well documented: http://www.whale.to/a/marks1.html
Their book, Panic Nation, is little more than propaganda for the junk food industry (in which Marks has a financial and professional stake) as well as a demagogic smear on upholders of balanced, low-fat diet.
Hamilton's link is to a brief, superficial review of their book. No wonder he is so ignorant of the subject of nutrition ajnd health if that's all he has ever read on the subject.
Serious members of these boards might want to consult respected science journals, where the ill-effects of high fat diets are well documented.
December 2002 issue of The International Journal of Obesity (http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v26/n4s/index.html)
April 2002 issue of The Journal of the American Dietetic Association (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=PublicationURL&_tockey=%23TOC%2312926%232002%23998979995%23407365%23FLA%23&_cdi=12926&_pubType=J&view=c&_auth=y&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=6ccf7dc1a22dedfebbc90708d41300ae)
And The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition
Submitted on Wed, 2007-08-15 03:18
reply
The whole point...
Serious members of these boards might want to consult respected science journals, where the ill-effects of high fat diets are well documented.
Excellent comment...
Submitted on Fri, 2007-08-17 22:21
reply 
bbluejjay's comment, posted without the long URL ;-)
The junk Science of Feldman and Marks Small/Big Dull/Bright Courtney Hamilton is not going to impress anyone by linking us to two notorious quacks, Stanley Feldman and Vincent Marks. Stanley Feldman is an anesthesiologist, anesthesiologists have no professionally recognized competence in the field of nutrition. As for his cronie, Vincent Marks, his links to the chemical, pharmaceutical and processed food companies have been well documented: http://www.whale.to/a/marks1.html Their book, Panic Nation, is little more than propaganda for the junk food industry (in which Marks has a financial and professional stake) as well as a demagogic smear on upholders of balanced, low-fat diet. Hamilton's link is to a brief, superficial review of their book. No wonder he is so ignorant of the subject of nutrition ajnd health if that's all he has ever read on the subject. Serious members of these boards might want to consult respected science journals, where the ill-effects of high fat diets are well documented. December 2002 issue of The International Journal of Obesity (http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v26/n4s/index.html) April 2002 issue of The Journal of the American Dietetic Association: http://tinyurl.com/34j3eb And The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition
Submitted on Thu, 2007-08-23 11:07
reply
Shock, horror, a professor works for pharmacetical company...
When it comes to medical quackery, you can't get more fruit-cake than bbluejjay's link to conspiracy theorist Martin Walker. Walker aims his criticism of professor Marks, not at the arguments laid out in his collabrative book, but for his association with pharmaceutical companies, the Cancer Research Campaign, the Institute of Food Research at Norwich, the American National Institutes of Health - and because professor Marks Biochemistry Department at Surrey University receives funds from Sandoz Pharmaceuticals, Unilever and the Flour Milling and Baking Research Association.
This is the same Martin Walker who is Britain's top apologist for witches brew, sorry I meant to say homeopathic complimentary and alternative medicine. Scientists who support such quackery as homeopathy and 'alternative' medicine are just as intellectually lazy as some of the posters on this thread - they don't do any research, they only read the holy book of obesity, and if humanity ever listened to them, millions of people would be dying of malaria, tuberculsis, cholera and cancers. Walker is no better than a scientologist, and his fascination, or obsession with pendulum wavers, crystal ball gazers and other fandangled new age nonsense is well known.
Submitted on Fri, 2007-08-24 13:48
reply Pejoratives removed.
[quote=Courtney Hamilton]... medical quackery, ...fruit-cake ...conspiracy theorist ...witches brew...quackery ...intellectually lazy ...no better than a scientologist, ...obsession with pendulum wavers, crystal ball gazers ...fandangled ...nonsense [/quote]
Submitted on Fri, 2007-08-24 17:37
reply Old Macdonald Did Some Harm
the Big Mac it’s more than a snack it’s a smack in the face of the human race not to mention the cow. Ow. it is also a pat on the back of the almighty buck.
yuck. all that gristle and fat served up in a bap. look at the muck in the gutters. the packaging flutters as a car goes by.
Why can’t they see this is not the way to be?
Why don’t they know this is not the way to go?
Hello? Ever heard of Kyoto? No? They don’t give a fack about Iraq not even about their heart attack they just wanna snack on a Big Mac.
© Richard Lawson
Submitted on Fri, 2007-08-24 07:27
reply When Courtney has demonstrated ability...
When Courtney Hamilton has demonstrated a grasp of the studies printed in The International Journal of Obesity, in The Journal of the American Dietetic Association and in The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, then we might be able to have a mature and responsible conversation with him.
In the meantime we are fed up with his perpetual substitution of personal attack and insult to informed discussion of issues and will opt to shun him if he can no more reform than educated himself.
Submitted on Fri, 2007-08-24 16:11
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