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Questions on process


Posts: 72
Joined: 2006-03-28

If you want to raise points of order, discuss issues arising from the process of this experiment, or ask questions of the experiment team, please use this thread. Please do not post contributions to the actual party funding debate here.




Posts: 1
Joined: 2008-02-19
consensus voting, an oxymoron

this is a valid, interesting and exciting project.

however;

*consensus* means reaching a decision which everyone can live with/support/is happy with. consensus decision making requires a group purpose or aim in making this decision; if there are 'stand asides' to the decision, this is because they cannot support it, and indicate the group may have not achieved its aim. A 'block' to a decision is a way of saying: this decision does not follow from the aims of the group.

*voting* is majority rule. so i think this is a valid and interesting project, and i block it! because consensus voting is an oxymoron, and having the first open question outlaw challenging the party process itself (which is so directly linked to any response I have regarding funding) is so closed its boring.

{ Response: Majority voting is the basis of majority rule. But consensus
voting is not majority voting. Consensus voting, the Modified Borda
Count [MBC] or preferendum, is a voting procedure by which can be
identified that option which is most acceptable to all. Now when people
come to a verbal consensus, they have to go through a process of
give-and-take. In consensus voting, they do the same: the process is
also one of give-and-take: each expresses their preferences, so then we
identify that option which has the highest average preference. And an
average, by definition, involves everybody, not just a majority. But
please see the accompanying article. http://www.opendemocracy.net/deborda/articles/consensus_voting_and_conflict_resolution

Peter Emerson }




Posts: 6
Joined: 2008-02-19
deliberative process

is it not?

so, a chance to find common ground - near unanimity, a super-majority?

Perhaps we can deliberate over parties another time?




Posts: 2
Joined: 2008-02-19
Ease of use

I've just posted a comment in a busy page. I didn't find the page very easy to work through - lots of clutter on the sides, confused by the dull/bright, big/small aspect. Not especially inuititive, I'd say.

 Great to be part of this experiment though! 

 




Posts: 72
Joined: 2006-03-28
RE: ease of use

Thanks for the feedback Ghee, and thanks for participating. I must admit I have mixed feelings about the dull/bright small/big functionality as well. As you've probably guessed, this is a feature of the opendemocracy forums rather than something specific to the de Borda process we are trialling.

 
{Ed.  In consensus voting, voters put the options into their order of preference.  The dull/bright small/big functionality is rather like those opinion polls where the punter can say "yes very good" or "yes good" or "indifferent" or "no bad" or "no very bad".  Which means he/she can say "yes very good" to a favourite option, and "no very bad" to everything else.  As a measure of social choice, therefore, the use of such a methodology is not recommended.

Peter Emerson.} 

 




Posts: 4
Joined: 2008-02-19
Legibility

I'd just like to reinforce the point about legibility. We're trying to have quite a complex discussion where small distinctions may matter. And we seem to be doing it in 6 point charcoal type on a grey background. (Replies seem to be smaller, and in italics, which makes them barely visible, let along barely readable). Can the Open Democracy tech wizards do anything during the process to make the content more readable?

{Ed.  Fair point.  We'll see what we can do.

Peter Emerson (with apologies for the italics).} 




Posts: 10
Joined: 2003-03-08
Topic boundaries

Neither the link that's supposed to clarify what this is all about nor the webpage cited in the reply to Mel Evans above, if different, is working (for me, at least).

Is the issue really whether political office-holders and/or candidates should receive remuneration and if so forom whom, as the question as put is obviously addressed to? Or is it really about party/election funding (as seems to be asumed by many) and ineptly phrased? I note that someone who took the very general question about how politics should be funded seriously got ruled out of order.

It's intriguing and frustrating; it's also rather unreassuring.

{Ed.  The link is

http://www.opendemocracy.net/deborda/guidelines_and_schedule

 so I hope that helps.  Peter Emerson.}

 

 




Posts: 16
Joined: 2007-09-13
Process

Dull/bright, big/small? What are they? How much time do you think busy people have to waste? It is because our politicians cannot focus compeletely on the issues that matter that we are in the state we are in. There is no place for niff naff and trivia in serious debate - particularly when this website requires cookies so reducing the security on my personal computer and wants pop-ups too ... and then has a spell checker (I am a thinker - not a typist) that deletes my text if I try to load it. It is just these sort of failings that make me tired of the politicians and bureaucrats of today.

(Ed.  Point taken.  We are reviewing whether or not they should be there at all.  Thanks for your comment.  Peter Emerson.} 




Posts: 2
Joined: 2008-02-19
small/big boxes

I have failed to work out how to operate to contibute to these stars. Can't find any instructions, but then I am often unable to see things on many web pages, maybe as they have too much on them or because of the design. Some pages I *see* straightaway so I do feel it is often a design issue.