Recent news updates from Occupy protests read like a crime blotter: A man shot near the encampment in Oakland. A homeless person dead in Salt Lake City. A suicide in Vermont. Two drug overdoses and a molotov cocktail in downtown Portland, Ore. A sexual assault in Philadelphia. Hypothermia in Denver ... and a 53-year-old man unnoticed in his tent in New Orleans, dead for at least two days.
Even more prevalent are city concerns about sanitation. Thousands of protesters have lived outdoors with few toilets and no showers for the better part of two months.
Protesters in Chicago violated a noise ordinance; a protester in New York defecated on a police car. In Oakland, when police officers forcibly cleared protesters from Frank Ogawa Plaza this week, in part to deal with a rat infestation, cleaning crews hauled away more than 100 tents, dozens of molded mattresses and 27.8 tons of trash.
And now, as The Washington Post reports, cities are finally clearing out these cesspools in public parks. A group of some hundreds of New Yorkers protested the protesters earlier in the week, telling them to clear out. And the movement, which is calling for more fiscal responsibility, is costing the cities it's occupying millions of dollars.
With the clearing of New York's Zuccotti Park, the movement's birthplace, cities are finally taking back their citizens' public spaces. The true 99 percent is finally speaking up.































You should keep reading then.
You should keep reading then. Eventually the reasons why you are wrong about pretty much everything will begin to seep in. The real mystery is why Repugnican voters actively support policies against their own interests, it's an interesting phenomenon.
The OWS which you clearly don't understand, don't wish to acknowledge, which threatens your authoritarian disposition apparently, will continue to work on your behalf while you catch up.
Sorry, I've been busy
Sorry, I've been busy stimulating the economy. You guys are really slamming this thread! Don't you have jobs?...lives? :-)
Before we go to far from pepperspraying miscreants, I wanted to throw this into the mix...
I agree.
Brendan was right… Someone
Brendan was right… Someone send out the paramedics.
I've seen the same opinion
I've seen the same opinion from several law enforcement experts and talking heads, Mike. And while it may be technically true, it was still a bone-headed PR flub. Anything that serves to breathe life into this about-to-go-belly-up farce of a movement is a waste of time, energy and resources.
One sociopath agrees with
One sociopath agrees with another, go figure.
Sorry, I've been busy
Sexy moments on opendemocracy.
haha yeah, I went there.
haha yeah, I went there.
Personally, I prefer pressure
Personally, I prefer pressure point techniques. Applied behind the ear or under the nose will have them on their feet in tears in a nanosecond. The best part is pressure points are "PR friendly" since they subtly achieve compliance by being incredibly painful without any appreciable movement by the officers.
First amendment be damned, eh
First amendment be damned, eh Mikey? What a flat foot. I'm surprised you can achieve a jogging pace. You may be the only one on the planet who cheers on the riot police in Tahrir Square. You do realize that a lack of empathy is how sociopaths are diagnosed, right?
The students had far exceeded
The students had far exceeded their first ammendment rights. They defied multiple demands to move to an adjacent area. They were loud and hostile to the police, encircling them and demanding they release the protesters who had been arrested. They were given several warnings that pepper spray would be used. I agree the force used(non-lethal) was a PR disaster, but that does not make it excessive or tactically inappropriate.
You realize that a lack of empathy for morons who provoke the response they receive is how "common sense" is diagnosed, right?
Comparing this to the response to Tahir Square is outrageously stupid hyperbole, even for rabid Socialists. No one was clubbed. No one was shot. No tents were burned. Perhaps you'll compare this next to Tiananmen Square where up to 600 protesters died.
Perhaps you need a guide to understand the difference.
I never equated the two
I never equated the two movements, I SAID "You may be the only one on the planet who cheers on the riot police in Tahrir Square." Which makes no comparison, it simply points out that you so admire authoritarian tactics and brutality so much so that you certainly must admire the American trained Egyptian military abusing protesters. I mean that is your "thing", right?
Jay,You might want to copy
Jay,
You might want to copy and save this for the next time you decide to respond to a Momo post:
HH is right, this was a PR
HH is right, this was a PR flub. The cop should have known better.
I think that this picture is most revealing. Whenever something happens, my camera is never ready in time. I gotta pull out my android, find the app, activate it, whatever. How is it that everyone has their camera ready here? Because they were warned over and over again that if they didn't move they were going to be peppered. Has a single one of these socialist weasels stepped forward to say, "Well, the cops were cool and patient, and these guys totally had it coming".
So even though the cop was following procedure and did nothing wrong, we still have the (campus) police chief on suspension and probably facing dismissal, which will surely be the same fate of the poor guy just doing his job. The chief wasn't even there, of course. As a citizen, I don't want to live in a society where disruptive individuals refuse to follow orders of the police, even when those individuals are merely misguided college kids. I find that somewhat daunting.
The emotionally mitigating factor to all of this is that it happened in Davis. There is no more tolerant place in the country perhaps. The police chief is a woman named Angela Spicuzza, or something like that. If I know anything about Davis, she is probably an African-American-Asian quadriplegic with a stutter who won the politically correct vote. She is probably saying, "But, we were ordered to remove the tents from campus, as it is against University rules. We didn't do anything wrong, and like, we are all liberals! It is not like we are Republican fascists from Texas!"
So, honestly, I am somewhat enjoying watching the coastal blue states reap what they've sown. I can't wait to hear what kind of lawsuits those kids are going to file. I bet they will all join the 1%.
Brendan,I just noticed this:
Brendan,
I just noticed this:
Take a deep breath, man. If we work together as a society, we CAN find a way to provide liberty, justice, and prosperity for all. We need to take a step back from our ideologies and keep our minds open.
I watched that video, and I agreed with much of what O'Reilly said, much of what Stein said, and much of what the "entrepreneur/investor" said, but none of them was representing the entire picture.
There most definitely is a correlation between taxes and unemployment. There is also a correlation between interest rates and unemployment. If I take money out of your wallet, bank account, and savings, it is going to influence your spending habits. You have finite resources; its that simple. When you tax people you reduce consumption. When you tax businesses you reduce investment. That factors into the equation and reduces growth, or even contracts the economy, and that slows job growth or even results in layoffs.
You can take a look at the economic booms that happened after the Kennedy tax cuts and the Reagan tax cuts. The government actually took in more revenue after cutting taxes, because they expanded the economy and created more incomes, more businesses, and more profits to tax.
Now I am not saying that I am opposed to new taxes. I am not a tea-partier. I am not saying that I don't want government programs to aid the neediest and improve the health of the overall society.
I understand that you want a better world for your children, but you are looking at the problems emotionally. A little less ideology and bit more reasoning would make the picture clearer. Sometimes liberal policies sound like the right thing, but they have unintended consequences that eventually wind up outsourcing your job to China. Be smart.
There most definitely is a
There most definitely is a correlation between taxes and unemployment.
No there is not, not when it comes to the taxation of those earning at least 1 million dollars per year. That is what is being considered, nothing else. It's not true, and as I said, feel free to try prove it with more than talking points. If you want to work "together" in any way then that begins with an honest evaluation of you own assumptions.
Brendan, There most
Brendan,
There most definitely is a correlation between taxes and unemployment. (Jay)
No there is not, not when it comes to the taxation of those earning at least 1 million dollars per year. That is what is being considered, nothing else. It's not true, and as I said, feel free to try prove it with more than talking points. If you want to work "together" in any way then that begins with an honest evaluation of you own assumptions. (Brendan)
Classical macro-economic theory is not "my assumptions", nor is it mere "talking points".
It seems that you have shifted from no correlation between taxes and unemployment, to no correlation between unemployment and eating the rich. I will play along, so try to keep an open mind.
I would be willing to go along with this populist uprising to tax millionaires, but only if there were a few caveats which forced them to invest in the economy. I say, what the hell, tax millionaires at 65%, but give them tax breaks for creating jobs domestically. If you are an optometrist and you open a new retail location, you get to deduct the entire cost of the finish out for that store. Theoretically, the bigger the store, the more employees, the more jobs created, the more the tax breaks.
This way, you get to take the tax receipts of non-productive millionaires like gangsta rappers, professional atheletes, movie stars, and those Manhattan bond traders that everyone is so excited about, while giving a strong incentive for business people to invest.
Of course taxing millionaires is going to have very little effect on the deficit, but if this is what makes people feel better and stop shitting in public parks, then why not give it a shot? Can you handle that?
I would be willing to go
I completely agree with that. Money invested is not "income" when is is kept "on the street" creating employment. Why would a business owner be taxed on money not being declared as profit or income? Deducting the whole cost of a fit out or re-equipping in the first year is a common incentive here. Two years ago I re-equipped for exactly that reason, not 3 year amortization. This is common sense, nothing to argue about here.
I disagree about it being not a significant amount. Also, getting a damn consumption tax (VAT) in place, tweak is so that things that affect low income earners most (like food, or healthy food) are exempt. Put a luxury tax on limos, porches and Escalades. You no longer have a deficit, we can now begin to grow the economy and pay that debt.Brendan,Finally, something we
Brendan,
Finally, something we can agree on. I might not have picked the best example on that optometrist's finish out, as I am not sure how much of that is deductible already in the US, but you get the picture. Figure out a way to encourage those that have money invest more of it in the "brick and mortar" sector, instead of the markets.
Texas has what you foreigners call a VAT. We have no State or Municipal income tax, but we do pay a State Sales Tax, which is 8.25% in Austin. (Cain wanted a 9% national sales tax.) It is indeed a "value added" tax, in that foodstuffs in their natural state are not taxable. I.e., tomatoes are not taxed, but tomato sauce is. Cain was getting a lot of support on his 9-9-9 plan, but then we found out he was a pervert.
I could go for a national sales tax, but the argument against it is that it has a disproportionate impact on the poor, which is how you kill any good idea in America.
I could also go go for steeper estate and inheritance taxes. Like Warren Buffet, I do not believe in dynastic wealth. There is no better way to screw up your kids than to set them up with millions. If it wasn't for all these American trust funds, we wouldn't have these filthy rich vermin occupying everything, now would we? Not to mention all of the idle, dreadlocked trustafarians trying to score weed in every public space between San Francisco and Vancouver.
How about more aggressive yet progressive capital gains taxes? The longer term the investment, the lower the rate. Day traders pay 50%, less than one year 35%, but the people who buy and hold simply to plan for retirement--the ones who are actually stable forces in securities markets--pay 10%.
How about regressive social security payments? Inverse percentages based on a million dollars of assets. If you are a millionaire, you pretty much don't need social security, as you are not the people the program set out to help. Over a million dollars in assets and you don't get public assistance. If you have 750k in assets, you get 25% of what you are theoretically "entitled" to. If you have 500k, you get 50%.
So, lets say all of these things are done. You still have not balanced the budget. By the time America is out of Iraq and Afghanistan, Obamacare will be in play, which is going to be an entirely new fiscal nightmare. Sooner or later, you need more than 53% of Americans paying taxes.
“As a citizen, I don't want
“As a citizen, I don't want to live in a society where disruptive individuals refuse to follow orders of the police,” (Jay)
This sums up Jay’s vision of what democracy is. Follow orders of the police. Don’t think. Don’t move. Obey.
(No subject)
(No subject)
Alan,Thank you my friend.
Alan,
Thank you my friend. This is a prime example of why photoshop is one of the best inventions of my lifetime.
(No subject)
Alan,With an encore!!! The
Alan,
With an encore!!! The best weapon against the Flea Party is indeed photoshop.
Henry, Mike, Jay,Happy
Henry, Mike, Jay,
Happy Thanksgiving to y'all. I hope you get to enjoy time with family. Try not to eat too much.
AP
Alan,Thanks buddy. Happy
Alan,
Thanks buddy. Happy Thanksgiving to you too. Going to mom's at noon, then to a friend's at 4. Going to be a tryptophan overdose.
Now if you will excuse me, I just learned how to make a fake poster. Looking for the right pic right now.
Likewise my friend! Ran my
Likewise my friend! Ran my 15K on Thanksgiving and lounged afterwards with family, turkey, beer, and football. I was pretty satisfied with my 1:38:05 time, but tempered by the fact that I was passed by a lady with a double stroller and a guy in a wheelchair (no kidding).
Yes yes yes, I know. Sexist,
Yes yes yes, I know. Sexist, misogynistic, vaguely creepy in an internet sorta way. She is really going to be upset now.
But if the black girl in the background can totally check out her backside, then why can't we laugh a little about the unfairness of it all?
(No subject)
Brendan,Typical. This woman
Brendan,
Typical. This woman does not know the difference between her but and her as. That should read, "Now would be agreeable to me, AS I am interested in your opinion."
Another unpaid student loan down the drain.
WikiSatire is primarily a
Wiki
Jay,Now that you've learned
Jay,
Now that you've learned to photoshop posters, could you make one for me? I'd like to have one with a grubby hippy-type holding a poster that says:
"If I had a nickle for every time I shit in your park, I wouldn't need a job."
Alan,Anything for you ole
Alan,
Anything for you ole buddy. Give me a few minutes and let me see what I can come up with.
Alan,All right buddy. Fixed
Alan,
All right buddy. Fixed this one up special for my Tennessee friend. Thanks for Davy Crockett and the gang...
You Know, I don't think there
You Know, I don't think there is ever a time when taking a shit on a cop car is not a good gag. I'm going to do my best to shit on one on Monday.
I suspect that 99% of jurors
I suspect that 99% of jurors would exonerate the cop or cops who shot this shithead after catching him crapping on their cruiser...
Brendan,In this time of
Brendan,
In this time of Americans giving thanks, I'd like to thank you northern North Americans for allowing us to borrow Leonard Cohen for the past 40-plus years.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYcCWThco6I
And a Leonard Cohen offering
And a Leonard Cohen offering for Momo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=be60--LsAfE
An authoritarian nationalist
An authoritarian nationalist linking to “The Partisan”. You are immune to the irony of it, aren’t you?
Let's see... Irony, right?
Let's see... Irony, right? The man is singing about taking up arms to fight for something he believes in. Specifically, a French partisan, fighting against the Germans. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the French partisans were supplied with weapons by the U.S. (and other alies), and very much welcomed American military might to drive out the Germans. There are many times when an outside nation comes to the aid of another, militarily. We would not have gained independance from Britain without the assistance of the French. France would not have thrown off the Germans without our help. A lot of countries have welcomed our military assistance. Some, not so much. The question is... When is it right, and when is it wrong. The answer is not... It is always wrong.
Then, throw in the fact that Mr. Cohen is a jewish Canadian who, in 1973, went Israel to volunteer during the Israel - Egypt war. I believe he wanted to be an Israeli paratrooper, but they felt he was of more value entertaining frontline troops, at times under fire.
I see no irony in the words and sentiments of someone who believes there are times, and causes, that are worth defending. Someone who normally looks for peaceful means to resolve conflicts, but understands there are times that such means are not an option.
I do see irony in the fact that someone who thinks taking up arms is never justified is critical of someone who understands there are times when it is the only choice.
“I see no irony in the words
“I see no irony in the words and sentiments of someone who believes there are times, and causes, that are worth defending.”
The irony is in YOUR quoting such a person!
I really don’t know why this should be too difficult for you to get, but you still list nationalities in your posts. Sorting a person into a box is all you need to know, to judge that person. You would have been a good guard in a death camp, because that’s what it was about. And now you will protest that this is not true because you are American and Americans can never be wrong, and even if they are they still have the right to kill everyone else who is not American, and of course every dissenter too. At the same time you claim antifascism for you—by virtue of your nationality of course.
Re-read your first paragraph, Alan. Tell me, do you still fail to see what you are doing there? It’s really incredible.
“I do see irony in the fact that someone who thinks taking up arms is never justified is critical of someone who understands there are times when it is the only choice”
Ah, and I suppose that you mean me by that. I’ve never said that. No matter for you: you aren’t interested in what a German actually said. You are American and claim the right to distort my words as you please.
So, is there any connection between the French resistance and the present movement? Clearly, yes. I suspect you, an authoritarian, friend of dehumanisation, advocate of torture, militarist, won’t like that: Stephane Hessel has called for exactly this resistance which you want to be fought.
I suspect that voluntarily you wouldn’t read a partisan’s words on the crises of our days, so you must be spoonfed:
Horse hockey. Like I said,
Horse hockey. Like I said, there are times when resistance by arms is necessary. There are times when a fight is the only option left. There are times when armed partisans and armed allies are needed to stop someone. Occupy Wall Street is not one of those times. You seem to think any fight against authority, money, capitalism, power, or business is automatically right. I would rather work within my American system to make things better for my children than sit around bitching and moaning and demanding the entire system be dismantled. As I said once before, on this site, the Ford Motor Company provided the opportunity for a hell of a lot of Americans to buy homes, educate their children, feed their families, and afford medical care. I dare say, Henry Ford provided better lives for a hell of a lot more Americans than all of the Occupy protesters put together. Even if he got rich while doing it.
I have no doubt you support the OWS protesters. After all, they want to bitch about "the system" and "the rich". And you're "all in" when that hand is played. I just think it's stupid to be such a knee jerker.
“Like I said, there are times
“Like I said, there are times when resistance by arms is necessary.”
Actually what you said is: “I do see irony in the fact that someone who thinks taking up arms is never justified is critical of someone who understands there are times when it is the only choice” insinuating that I had said that, which is FALSE.
“You seem to think any fight against authority, money, capitalism, power, or business is automatically right.”
You seem to think any fight against authority, money, capitalism, power, or business is automatically wrong!
“I would rather work within my American system…”
Ah, everything else is un-American again!
“I just think it's stupid to be such a knee jerker”
Not subscribing to your ideology makes one a knee-jerker, of course.
I note that you are too much a coward to answer the accusation of racism which I raised.
I note that you are too much
I must have missed it. Here's my response... get stuffed.
Selective perception. I am
Selective perception. I am not surprised.
Have you raised any
Have you raised any arguments for your rejection of the occupy movement? No. All you have are vilifications and violence.
Here you go... I reject the
Here you go...
I reject the notion that all the economic ills of the world are the fault of Wall Street, banks, and the wealthy, that socialist policies had nothing to do with the economic downturn.
I reject the notion that government spending will cure the problem.
I reject the notion that we should steal from the rich and give to the poor.
I reject the notion that the government owes you a home, a job, and education, medical care, or any other cradle-to-grave socialist system, expecting the "rich" will pay for all of it (especially when such systems remove any incentive to become rich in the first place).
I have faith that the economy will turn around.
I have believe the only thing preventing huge investments in new jobs and new factories and new products is the massive amount of stupid regulations placed on private enterprises.
I believe the economy will explode when companies begin investing, the week after Obama is replaced by a Republican, and those stupid regulations are relaxed/removed.
I believe a recovery depends on a change in the White House and in the Legislature, and camping in tents on city parks will do absolutely nothing to create jobs.
On top of all that, I believe most of those in the OWS protests are a bunch of whiners who are not representative of the vast majority of American who are willing to work damn hard to get ahead, and don't just expect the government to give them everything.
And, as a final thought, I believe I have the right to laugh at the stupidity they represent. Andthey certainly provide plenty of laughs.
You believe. That’s what you
You believe. That’s what you can do in church. I had asked a question about politics, not religion. Have you any arguments?
I note that you lost interest in debating the French resistance as soon as you were enlightened what they used to fight for (as opposed to what they fought against). How come? Come, spell it out.
The reasons I don't support
The reasons I don't support the OWS protesters are found in my beliefs.
I have not lost interest in debating the French resistance with you. For me to have lost something would imply I had an interest at one time, in order to have lost it.
Understand, most times, I barely skim over your posts. Especially anything longer than a sentence or two. Because I refuse to be dragged into the pessimistic, sour outlook on life you possess.
This is the last semi-serious post you'll drag from me on this thread. I honestly feel sorry for you. It must be a miserable life to be so humorless.
“I have not lost interest in
“I have not lost interest in debating the French resistance with you. For me to have lost something would imply I had an interest at one time, in order to have lost it”
It was you, not me, who linked to “The Partisan”. Why?
“Because I refuse to be dragged into the pessimistic, sour outlook on life you possess”
“I honestly feel sorry for you. It must be a miserable life to be so humorless”
Not sharing your belief system for you is a “pessimistic, sour outlook”. Not sharing your taste for jokes highlighting mass murder makes one humourless in your view then. Well. You are probably unaware of how hollow you sound.
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