Democracy in the Catholic Church?

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I believe that every country, every social organization and every culture in this world should be democratized through peaceful and legal means. This is because democracy is a method or way that makes a political system and management structure become compatible and be in harmony with all of the known natural, universal and moral laws and principles. Hence, democracy is natural, universal and moral. The concept of the "social contract" makes every political rule, management structure and human authority become morally responsible in protecting, securing, upholding, promoting and guaranteeing all of the known human rights and responsible human freedoms in this world. The Roman Catholic Church is a social organization also. The Roman Catholic Church has a management structure. Therefore, it's only proper for the Roman Catholic Church to become democratized. Every true or real religion in this world teaches that a human being should attain personal salvation in order to have eternal life or eternity. I believe in the reality of personal salvation. Attaining personal salvation is attaining real harmony with nature, universe, society, the good angels and the LORD GOD. Democracy is a method or way of making a political or management system become in harmony with nature, universe, society, the good angels and the LORD GOD. Hence, advocating democracy is actually a way of preaching the gaining of personal salvation.

did you take a look at the new pope, he seriously gives me chills, not like that warm glow the last guy gave off(sorry i dont know his name im not catholic). His name suggests evilness to me, roguery, he was a hitler youth, and on top of that the type of things ive heard him quote just get me to thinking that thers another hierachial deadend in a high place of power and thinking for that matter.. get real people.

THE "POPE"? He was the leader of the biggest SCAM on earth! He was the titular head of the largest group of charlatans, perverts, connivers, chiselers, and swindler's, who through their manipulations of innocents, and idiots have amassed the greatest pool of wealth the world has ever known! The power of their filthy lucre', ill gotten untaxed monies; much of it concealed in holding companies; is used to: buy, control, or influence all sources of media: including Radio, TV, Movie Production, Newspaper, Magazine, and Book Publishing! And You! And this so very pervading influence is wielded like a plague to infect

I am thrilled with this appointment. This is a gifted, thoughtful, knowledgable and thoroughly decent man who sees things "in the round" and is capable of prudence and generosity. Skip all the stuff about rottweilers - this is a large-minded man with a strong academic background whose approach is genial and courteous. He is no showman - I think he is the type who doesn't hugely care for big rallies and cheerleading, and I don't see him whizzing about in a Popemobile (though I daresay he will be obliged to do some of that) - his style is more the "light hand on the tiller". Think about why he chose the name Benedict XV1 - emphasis on history (16th chap of the same name, etc) and on peacemaking - his whole life has been dominated by the notion that war destroys and that diplomacy, truth well expressed and decisions well made, will win the day. He will probably concentrate on making sound episcopal appointments - against media advice and with howls of resentment from those who reject the doctrines of the Church that Bishops are meant to uphold and who will be angry that there will be Bishops in place upholding them.......

I WILL POST SOME OF MY OWN RESPONSES LATER, AFTER SOME DISCUSSION IF ANY HAS STARTED Here is a cc of a "Progressive American Catholic Manifesto" by a Catholic Loyola University Law prof. I don't know to what extent we are in agreement about strategy, as I have just sent him an initial long email message with some of my postings and letters on the subject. See also commentary from the DAWN (DC anti-war network) website of yahoo!groups where I saw this posted. Their web address for open discussions like these is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dawn-discuss-dc/?yguid=197489931 Benedict and George - We Are Not Leaving! A

How much worse would progressives have done if spoken out openly and in great numbers? New pope intervened against Kerry in US 2004 election campaign Tue Apr 19 WASHINGTON (AFP) - German Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the Vatican theologian who was elected Pope Benedict XVI, intervened in the 2004 US election campaign ordering bishops to deny communion to abortion rights supporters including presidential candidate John Kerry. Reuters In a June 2004 letter to US bishops enunciating principles of worthiness for communion recipients, Ratzinger specified that strong and open supporters of abortion should be denied the Catholic sacrament, for being guilty of a "grave sin."

Ratzinger. This means the very opposite of democracy in the church. It surely also promises the opposite of collegiality, which means, as I understand it, mutual respect and listening within a rather larger oligarchy than that inside the Vatican - that is, inclusiveness within the larger oligarchy of the cardinals and bishops. Even that prospect seems dim now. Of course, past Popes have surprised. And the idea of an aged, interim pope is not new. We will hear all this is in the coming analysis. The only possible good I can see in it is that when authoritarian trends go further into the dar

HURLBURJ, a Democratic Underground website user, quotes my posting, pasted from the one here below, and responds: To start off, I am an agnostic of Jewish background/traditions of authentic progressive political leanings. So first off, one might wonder what standing I have to say ANYTHING. Well, in the mutuality of social existence, I might SAY something about the elections in the Ukraine, the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians, the Varela project in Cuba, or Hindu nationalism in India, just as they have every reason and right to protest my government's neocolonial venture in Iraq. Of course,

There is no misfortune that would not eventually turn out to be a good thing, after all (Polish proverb). I wish it may have lasted forever – but the end of John Paul's reign has an optimistic note, too. Finally, the Polish messianic megalomania is reduced to tears and slowly passing away, after the last hysterical spasm of mass crowds at masses (150 thousand people in just one square in Warsaw last Sunday, over 1m in Cracow this weekend). On the other hand, what is the interesting in omnipresent media attempts at summing up these years of Wojtyła, is, of course, what is being assiduously passed over in silence. Contrarily to another romantic hero – Konrad Wallenrod, who became the great master of the Teutonic knights in sole intention to destroy their order from within – the pope could obviously not go beyond the limits of his duties. He simply could not introduce any more democracy into the structure that has been created on the very principle of obedience to the hierarchy. The spirit of gathering and consolidation always prevailed over the mystic (i.e.: necessarily solipsist) intuitions, whereas mass instinct will overwhelm any form of confidence in an individual.

Must read for those interested about the truth instead of spins, interested in logic instead of hysteria. 1. We are rewriting the history of communism's collapse It was Gorbachev, not the Pope, who brought the system down Jonathan Steele 04/08/05 "The Guardian" - - The deaths of the powerful elicit extravagant claims, and many of the tributes to the man being buried in Rome today have been little short of grotesque. Dumbing-down comes over obituary writers, and in their eagerness to define a clear legacy they often produce simplifications that take no account of how the world and people change.

I don't know where else on the web you might get such a diversity of opinion as in this discussion of democracy in the Catholic Church. Personally, I am having trouble putting it all together, and I welcome this difficulty. The world is like this: confusing, cacophonous. We all desperately try to simplify, but it's not so easy. On the one hand we are very aware from the media, and perhaps from personal sources of the inspirational impact this man had on so many. My sister writes of attending a small Church of England church on the Welsh border last weekend, that "the whole service was a memorable act of respect for the Pope." She adds, "what a reach he had as a human being - my Polish friend says everyone is mourning a member of their family..." A Jewish symphony conductor in Krakow explains on TV how his own Jewish faith revived from contact with this man. This kind of impact doesn't happen from a phony person. I respect all those people who found a hero in this man: and I am very interested in what they were looking for, which other leaders failed so conspicuously to give them.

well today the vatikan anounced that "the world is not ready for a black pope!!" This is soo racist and backward!! Africans are just as human as anyone else!! why do white people always think they are superior to coloured people!! Seriously this is so discrimnating and by the way black people seem to have much more faith and pray with much more love and tolerance. This is seriously a very disturbing statement!!

To my mind two of the most interesting views in recent days have come from inside the Catholic Church. From a Loreto sister, and from a journalist. The former describes Pope John Paul's legacy as monologue not dialogue. The latter puts his interventions in European politics into a more critical perspective. See the links below to the Australian newspaper in which both articles were published. http://smh.com.au/articles/2005/04/03/1112489348969.html http://smh.com.au/articles/2005/04/03/1112489348936.html

Since when is the Apostolic Roman Catholic Church suppose to be an open democracy? I don't remember Jesus having a convention to elect which one of his followers would be among the Twelve. Or having a ballot box at the Last Supper for the Twelve to decide if there should be a Good Friday. Also, if you disagree on Jesus non-democratic unilateral decision to pick Peter, you can start your own open democratic religion by creating your own core of beliefs (constitution), membership rules and bylaws. By the way, make sure that this religion has ample referendum voting rights on matters of faith (dogma). Good luck.

According to what I know of history, synods or conclaves were held in early days of the Church to settle matters of doctrine. Gradually the practice was abandoned in the Western (Roman) church. In recent centuries, the Pope assumed the power to make such decisions. I think the Church should revive the practice of holding synods in which such matters as birth control, abortion, ordination of women, acknowledging the rights of homosexuals, and other matters currently under dispute could be debated and perhaps agreed upon. It is too much to expect one man, the Pope, to be able to reconcile so

It is interesting to me how the liberal mindset instinctivley assumes that "Democracy" is the end all for all people everywhere. My dictionary says Democracy is the "rule of the majority". Can't you just see where Amerca would be under a "Democracy" rather than a "Republic" (which is what we are)??? The left coast and east coast high density populations would dictate the mores of America and we would sink irretrievably into the amoral abyss of Hollywood filth. What liberals can't even imagine, let alone accept as true, is that God is perfect, and plans a perfect eternity for those who believe in the Judeo Christian God. Through the Bible, "He" has laid out the path to perfection for mankind to either accept or reject. Man is intrinsically flawed and cannot enter heaven without the "GRACE" of God, and it's by that free gift of "GRACE" that we slowly seek, and ultimately achieve perfection with Christ in Heaven, but we must first BELIEVE in our Hearts that Jesus Christ is Lord and God.

Contact: Bridget Mary Meehan: 941-953-5948, 703-967-6736, sofiabmm@aol.com Women-Church Announces “Open Conclave” As the cardinals meet behind locked doors to select a new pope, the people of the church must be involved in the process of selection of church leaders and models of leadership. Women-Church Convergence announces an open conclave in cyberspace so that the entire community of faith may make their views known about important issues in the church’s life. Visit us at www.women-churchconvergence.org/conclave. Women-Church Convergence envisions a church that treats women as partners and equals in all areas of church life. This model, rooted in the Jesus tradition, honors the gifts of God in the people of God. It is a path the community can follow to ensure integrity in ministry and accountability in governance and in all areas of church life. We promote participatory, egalitarian structures rather than hierarchical domination. We see the papacy as a sign of unity, not a person with authority. We call on all Catholics to take this unique opportunity to rethink basic aspects of our common life.