India/Pakistan

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News this morning of Musharraf's resignation.  Do democrats rejoice?  Do security experts tremble in their boots?

It's been a while since I followed Pakistani politics closely, but my understanding is that the only thing that united the opposition parties--traditional enemies--was their common hatred for Musharraf.  Now that he's gone, what's left holding the country together?  Anyone have insight?

Everybody has a theory about who did it and Benazir allegedly even knows the mastermind and who planned the killing. O J Simpson and Fox Network received a lot of thrashing for book and show "*If I did it" *about how OJ Simpson would have killed his wife had he done it. Well.. this is an extremist's version of "If I did it". For the weak hearted, please beware that the arguments represent extremist viewpoints and you may find them disgusting. We are extremists. Allegedly we kill innocents. We also kill indiscriminately. However, our killings or whatever killings are attributed to us are not pointless. There is always an objective and we plan to achieve

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engineertariq wrote: 14m ago I would just like to add few comments the way our brutal, hypocrates, liar rulers treat their own people/nation. It looks like we are ruled by a Hindu Government in Pakistan and we are fighting between Hindus and Muslims. The government of India and its people (specially in Gujarat) kill innocent muslims without any reason, just because the crime is that they are muslims,therefore Kill the Muslims living in India(Irrespective whether they are women, children or elderly people, burn them,rape the muslim women-Many evidences against Indian Attrocities are available on Video in the MARKET,HAVE A LOOK WHAT THIS LARGEST DEMOCRACY DOES AGAINST MUSLIMS,AND HOW AGAIN BOMB WAS EXPLODED IN THE MOSQUE IN INDIA BY HINDUS,TO KILL MUSLIMS- as the International community would not take any action against India, I ask the governments of the West and USA,WHY SUCH A DISCRIMINATION,WE DO NOT Expect this from you) and the same is happening here, in our country Pakistan.

Bi-literalism has failed between India and Pakistan. Three decades of talks under the Simla framework have yielded not a single breakthrough in understanding, the only bi-lateral consensus the two sides have reached is that they agree to disagree and agree to talk some more! Western duplicity on Kashmiri human rights smacks on sheer hypocrisy...You, the government, can silence whoever you wish to, as long as it is in support of the wider war on terror, and,secondly, as long as those whom you target are muslims. The United States, The European Union, Britain, and the eternally-in-hibernation Organization of Islamic Countries, apparently, all stakeholders in the six decade long Kashmiri dispute, by failing to push India towards conflict resolution, are all, to varying extents, guilty of giving the Indian government the green light to systematically slaughter and ethnically cleanse Kashmir of muslims. The international community: the Americans, the European Union bloc, the United Nations - in particular the Chinese and Russian members of the permanent Security Council, and the Organization of Islamic Countries, all need to have some level of positive input to push for a breakthrough on Kashmir.

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The last fifty years need little introduction. So...im gonna spare the details on the bloodshed and the death tolls. Lets talk tomorrow. I would really like to understand how the people of pakistan view the future shaping up. Do they want war or peace? Are claims of Kashmir purely politically driven? Does the 'Aam Admi' in pakistan really care about kashmir? Because in India, frankly speaking, most of us dont give a damn while a select few behave asthough it means the world. This includes the Shiv Sena cartoons including Bal Thakre, some BJP loyalists and any ruling government. Here are the questions -

PAKISTAN

Comment: Muslims, the world over, mourn the state of Musharraf's Pakistan Introduction Monday 30th October 2006 marked a disgraceful new low in the tenure of Pervez Musharraf's military dictatorship of Pakistan. A missile strike against an Islamic madrassa in Chinagai in an agency of Pakistan's FATA area killed 80. There can be no doubt that when it comes to dealing with Muslims in madrassas, military dictator Pervez Musharraf's has shown none of his fabled penchant for moderation. In the aftermath of the incident, it was unclear as to whether it was a US strike, an attack carried out by Pakistani armed forces or even a joint effort. What is clear is that there may not be a more compliant leader today executing a flawed US foreign policy by proxy, than Musharraf. One must question whether there is a limit to depths that Pakistan will sink under his leadership?

Who are partners of westerners? In the cold war, the biggest threat to westerners is Soviet Union. But most people of Soviet Union are white men and white women. Although Soviet Union has great military power, no westerners are killed by military power of Soviet Union. Nixon and Kissinger were wise at that time but right now the situation of the world is completely changed. Kissinger is not wise now because he still sticks to his old policy to China and India and Russia. China has greatly developed China's economy and military power and China is a little strong like Japan in World War II and China wants to destroy the United States and Russia to control the whole world in order to realize communism in the world. That is why China supports Al-Queda and Iran and North Korea to develop nuclear weapons and that is why China guided 9/11 attack. If China is really a country with strongest economy and military power, with the help of Kissinger and other Jews who do not know the real personality of Chinese, westerners and Russians and Indians are endangered.

Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf has said he may consider "taking steps backward" if India does not respond to his self-rule and demilitarisation proposals on Kashmir. He however told Kashmiri leaders that they should "once and for all" give up their independence proposition as it was "not durable and no time should be wasted on such futile exercises". Panthers Party chief Bhim Singh told reporters here on Saturday that "Musharraf complained India was not responding to the proposals that he had been repeatedly been making to New Delhi. He said if India does not respond, he may consider 'taking steps backward'".

In difficult time all religious hate, murder, rape all worse thing weeped out people help whole heartily to each other, but in happy time we hate each other, quarrel for very cheap reason, I always pray that mankind must suffer fragrantly then only they remember humanity

I am deeply digusted, the UN is struggling with raising 550 million dollars for the thousands of homeless people in Pkaistan, mainly being children!! What is wrong with the world, this earthquake is just as bad as the tsunami, yet no1 gives a "shit"!! excuse my language, but what there is no other expression that can express my frustration! People please donate something!! It can also just be 5 euros, it still makes a difference!

The recent events that took place in the Sub-Continent in terms of peace, the trust bestowed on Pakistan, the betrayal in Delhi blast make one wonder if peace is the priority now? We do not make peace with a mischief monger who does not have honest commitment to peace. Pakistan looks at peace as a means to achieve what it could not achieve through war. The real estate called Kashmir. The blast in Delhi, masterminded by the terrorists ( I refuse to call them Militants, a term that is endearing to the writers with motives), funded by ISI an establishment of Pakistani machinery. The terrorists who hijacked the plane from Nepal and in the process killed a newly wed Indian live in Pakistan with the complicity of the rulers.

There is an article in NEWS TODAY OCTOBER 24, 2005 http://newstodaynet.com/guest/2410gu1.htm by Mr.M.V.Kamath,a strong RSS scholar and writer. This article should be taken as the will of the people of India. Now the ball is in Pakistan's court. The religious and fundamentalist from Pakistan should grab the opportunity at the very first instant to undo the damage caused to the Muslims by the people who formed Pakistan.They should realize that the Pakistan Army and I.S.I. are bound to oppose such Confederation since they will not survive after the Confederation. All Pakistanis should think in the larger interest of development of Muslims rather than to be the puppets in the hands of Pakistan Army, I.S.I.

The earthquake of October 8th has left millions stranded, and caused thousands to die, however it had one gd aspect to it, of improving Indian- Pakistani relations. http://www.gulfnews.com/Articles/WorldNF.asp?ArticleID=187590 Opening the line of control in Kashmir, is a huge step forwárd, howvever there is one incident which was a selfish act of the Pakistani government. India offered aid to Pakistan, even going so far of breaking an Indian Army rule- that Indian army officials are allowed to enter Pakistan in order to save lives, Musharraf arrogantly replied that the Indian helicopters could be used, however did not want the help of Indian army officers.

The Article by Mr. Maruf Khwaja states that "as usual, God is being unjustly blamed for tragedies that are the consequence in large part of human failure.” In this connection I would like to emphasis that the very concept of blaming GOD, whether justly or unjustly itself is wrong one in as much in all religions, the GOD is considered to be pure and blameless. God is only JUST and can never be Unjust as God is most merciful while dealing with the creation. However whenever any section of GOD's creation violates the DIVINE LAWS, the natural calamity of ghastliest kind occur and the surviving people start thinking as to why it happened at all. Everyone who died in such calamity has not committed sins of such magnitude to warrant such tragic ends. There are pious among them. What was their fault? If we go to find the root cause, we notice that they were part of the Society which unnecessarily tolerated the bad reigns of their Rulers. Every religion and system gives freedom to people to choose who should Rule upon them in their day to day affairs. People have right to revolt against the oppressing ruler. The GOD gives a respite to the ruler for a certain period to rule justly and during this session of respite if the ruler is not acting in the interest of humanity as a whole then GOD illustrates by such disasters to warn the rulers and the Society to get rid of such ruler and when despite these illustrations if any body fails then the DIVINE LAW take its course to punish the ruler.

Pakistan created by people with shaky faith in Allah. { Note: The below article was posted by me about a year before at www.foreignpolicy.com and also at www.rediff.com .Since this forum is dedicated towards democracy I am reproducing it for discussion) ------------------------------------------------- I read an article written by an ex-Aligarian (ex student of Aligarh Muslim University-India) wherein the author wrote the following sentence: " Perhaps if there had been no Aligarh there would have been no Pakistan." The above view of the ld.Author is totally contradictory to the vision of Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, who established the Aligarh College only for the sole purpose of Muslims becoming equally placed with the Hindu majority. Religion and politics were never mixed even after the death of Sir Syed Ahmed Khan in as much as in 1920 when the British decided to celebrate the peace after the first world war ,it were the trustees of the Aligarh College who supported the peace celebration inviting the criticism and passing of a resolution condemning their action by the 2nd Ulema Conference held in Delhi in Nov 1920 on the queston of Khilafat Movement, where Mahatma Gandhi was the only non-muslim participant.It is again a matter of debate that the then Ulemas became a tool in the hands of Gandhji who wanted to exhibit the mass support he commanded especially when the extremist congressmen were gainging much popularity than Gandhji after the Jalianwala Bagh massacre.Gandhiji picked up the idea of encashing the Khilafat issue to gain Muslim support and he moved a resolution in the Congress Session on the matter of Khilafat.It was passed by cen percent votes except for the lone opposition vote casted by none other than Barrister Jinnah who dared Gandhiji from the dais that it was wrong to mix the politics and religion and no resolutions of religious nature be passed in the political forum. The success achieved by Gandhiji, tempted Jinnah -the pork eater and drunkard- to highlight religion in politics, and in the process Jinnah acting as puppet in the hands of Hindu Mahasabha had weakend the Muslim strengh in India. Just imagine how Muslims would have dominated the Indian Politics had there been no division of muslims.It is absurd even to imagine remotedly that the pakistan army or the Pakistan's I S I have any love or religious affilation to Indian Muslims and to some extent even to Pakistan's muslims .The aim of pakistan army and I S I is to see that their importance is maitained at any cost and they eat more than half of pakistan's budget by fooling that India is foe no.1 and is a threat to them- depriving the common pakistani of their bread and butter. The nation founded by a pork eater and a drunkard having married to a non muslim with the support of the people with shaky belief in Allah has become a heaven of worldly pleasure-far away from the Islamic teachings-to rich pakistanis .What is Pakistan today-money of miagrants, american aid, arab aid and drug money.It has nothing to survive if these four factors are removed from the pakistan.Compare the progress made by India.The founders of Pakistan while reasoning for the partition say that they would loose their identity if they stay in India since their culture and Hindu culture were different. The combined muslims were divided in three parts -one remained in India,one formed the then east pakistan and the third one formed Pakistan.Just before Pakistan celebrate its silver junilee of creation, it got divided into two nations- Pakistan and Bangla Desh.It needs no proof to state that the culture of Bengali Muslims and the Punjabi & Sindh Muslims are totally different . The Pakistani now allege that it was India which divided them willfully forgetting that it was their own stand that two different cultures can not remain together.The present position of Indian Muslims is far far superior than the Pakistani and Bangla Deshi Muslims.At least no Indian muslim kill another muslims as is happening in pakistan.The Pakistan try to highlight that Indian Muslims are suffrering in the hands of Hindus.If Pakistan really wants that Indian Muslims should not suffer then it should look after itself and should stop sending the ISI trained people to India to commit terrorist acts.The Indian Muslims have a strong belief in Allah and Insha Allah a day is not far when India will be a super power- more powerful than America and other countries.And had there been no pakistan, the muslims from the United India would have become the world dominating factor. Alas the few muslim intellectuals having shaky faith in Allah and who were coward to face the Hindu phobia -forgetting to seek Allah's help for their safety and welfare chose to create Pakistan and there by ruined the muslims in general.