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Philip Jones Griffiths Q & A - war photography and Vietnam


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Acclaimed photographer Philip Jones Griffiths will be answering questions on war photography and Vietnam in a week-long exclusive Q & A. Start posting your questions here! You can read Philip's openDemocracy article here, and see more photographs from his new book, Viet Nam at Peace, here. ....................... Philip Jones Griffiths covered the Algerian War in 1962 and was then based in Central Africa, before moving to Asia. He photographed in Vietnam from 1966 to 1968. He returned to Vietnam in 1970 and became famous for his 1971 book on the war, Vietnam Inc.



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Re: Philip Jones Griffiths Q & A - war photography and Vietnam
Greetings Philip ... from a great admirer and student of your work, Despite the lies fabricated by the US and British governments to sell a war in Iraq, and despite the human rights violations against the prisoners at Abu Ghraib last year and to Iraqi civilians by certain US troops, George W Bush has been re-elected to a second term of office and only and few low ranking military personal have been charged with violations over the Abu Ghraib incident. The false reasons for creating a war have been well documented and widely published. The photographs of human rights violations and humiliation at Abu Ghraib and Gantanimo Bay have been seen worldwide. Yet within the last weeks four top military advisors in Iraq including former commander of the US troops Lt Gen Ricardo Sanchez have been cleared over abuses at Abu Ghraib. Most recently a US military report claims that the killing of Italian agent Nicola Calipari by US troops at a check-point, finds the troops "not culpable”, yet all the evidence points to the contrary including the testimony of the Italian journalist in the car at the time. With all this hypocrisy and undeniable evidence, including photographs, the US government, re-elected by a clear majority, remains firmly in power. Additionally Tony Blair will most likely be re-elected in Great Britain with in the next month. Your images of Vietnam… the images at Abu Ghraib, and all the hundreds of images of human suffering from photographers who have documented the war in Iraq have had little or no effect in the long run. Magnum, your agency, has now clearly turned its head at this type of photography, leaning more towards an interest in “FINE ART photography”. Do you still believe that you can make a difference with your photographs or that a photograph or a photographer can make a difference and really change policy? Can a photograph of an atrocity stop future atrocities? We had Rwanda, which has been well documented and photographed, and now we have Darfur. -Anthony Suau , author of Fear This, and Beyond the Fall



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Re: Philip Jones Griffiths Q & A - war photography and Vietnam
Regarding the conclusion of your article i.e. that just as US military power failed in Viet Nam, so did global commercialism, or so it seems at the moment. The question: what would make, in your mind, Viet Nam so resistant to both? More so than most cultures, you seems to argue. If this is the case, it would be interesting to know what cultural patterns and idiosyncracies support/explain your hypothesis?



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Re: Philip Jones Griffiths Q & A - war photography and Vietnam
Hello Philip, could you tell us what motivated you to document Vietnam in photographs for such a long period of time, and what you hope this body of work can accomplish. Thanks.



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Re: Philip Jones Griffiths Q & A - war photography and Vietnam
Dear Tony, I appreciate your frustration at the seemingly ineffective role we have played in persuading public opinion to promote justice. Personally I am not entirely despondent. I feel the recent developments you mention should motivate us to want to try harder. As there is no strictly empiric way to evaluate the impact we have on public opinion it could equally well be argued that without our efforts (and those effective “stringers” at Abu Ghraib) the situation today could be worse – Blair winning by a landslide, for instance. We should never become disheartened. Even if we only reach a single person, it’s worth it. And even if that person abandons political activism in favour of synchronized swimming our efforts will not have been in vain. Because truly civilized societies learn from history and at the very least that’s what we do – record history for future generations. These are tumultuous times. The American Empire is on the rampage. We might not be able to stop it, or even slow it down a little, but we can record the egregious effects of the juggernaught. Indeed Magnum was in the forefront of those “shining light on dark places” and therefore it is to be expected that it has come under attack from those intent on its destruction.



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Re: Philip Jones Griffiths Q & A - war photography and Vietnam
I photographed the war because, frankly, in 1966 it was the most interesting story. I soon discovered all was not as it seemed. Viet Nam was full of contradiction and before long I came to see beyond the death and destruction. I argued in my book, Vietnam Inc., that America was trying to impose its consumer capitalist values on the Vietnamese. On returning after the war I came to realise that the country was an effective fish bowl in which to examine the effects of globalization. As the country passed through various periods I became fascinated by the way the Vietnamese dealt with the various challenges it faced. Seeing a country battling to preserve its traditional values is a profound eductional experience!



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Re: Philip Jones Griffiths Q & A - war photography and Vietnam
First, let me say that the Vietnamese are still gallantly fighting a battle to prevent the subjugation of their nation by consumer capitalism. The fight is far from over. However, I’m inclined to be optimistic about the outcome. Why? Because the Vietnamese have been bound for 3000 years by a culture that promotes wisdom where status is conferred by real merit rather than possession of the trinkets and baubles of consumerism. This philosophy is regarded as an obstacle by the handmaidens of the multinational corporations. As one American diplomat put it, “ . . . The inhabitants must go back to zero, lose their traditional culture, for it blocks everything.” As a result the Vietnamese possess an innate wisdom that makes them wary of the siren calls of the advertisers. They have an intelligence that promotes an evaluative approach, one that considers the opportunities before action. As I’ve written elsewhere, “The Americans had the smart bombs but the Vietnamese had the smart minds.” And that’s why, thirty years ago, they won the war.



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Re: Philip Jones Griffiths Q & A - war photography and Vietnam
Dear Philip: What you did was a wonderful thing and I'm sure it must have affected you deeply! This is just a comment that it is apparent that the American public and European culture is still just coming out of the middle ages and hasn't yet alighted into the new age where we can see the hurt of others and feel it like we should. We have been trained culturally from birth to look the other way and not to recognize the injustices we see every day. Thank you for being one of the brave ones who will speak up! Love, Wendy Martin



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Re: Philip Jones Griffiths Q & A - war photography and Vietnam
Dear Mr Jones Griffiths, The clarity and, indeed, compassion of the Viet Nam trilogy leave the reader of your books in no doubt of the consequences of the US onslaught there, militarily, economically and ideologically. Further, the Vietnamese response to that failed onslaught - employing artifices of destruction requiring madmen in power and technological lunatics to serve them - makes one one weep to witness them in your pictures and text. You have already been asked why you think the people of Vietnam were and are capable of maintaining the integrity of their culture in the face of such unprecedented aggression. But why do you think a nation of 250 million people, basically decent, can support a government capable of such atrocities? Is it a geographical, educational, problem? Is it because empires, economic or military, are necessarily destructive? Must they always envelop in their maw all cultures, ideas and independence of spirit they find contrary to their received interests? America has not always been directed in the conduct of its business by such men who have had the affairs of state in their grasp for the last 50 years. Far from it. Why?



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Re: Philip Jones Griffiths Q & A - war photography and Vietnam
Hi Philip. Just had a good look through your new book. Quite a monument. Left me feeling full of anger. Look at the concequences of war.. any war, anonomous sides.. who ever they are... what kind of terrible suffering, pain, never ending that pain. who casn make it go away. I think about Tony Blair, and the war he had taken this country. You pictures tell us what is going on in Iraq even if yopu were never there. But... did those pictures, your pictures change anything. I hope they did. What do you think. Perhaps they didn't. How does that make you feel about the work you have done, your sacrifices, the risks you took, physically and emotionally. Your book is timely and worth while. Thanks. Oliver



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Re: Philip Jones Griffiths Q & A - war photography and Vietnam
as a frequent visitor to vietnam i have been there 20 times in the last 7 years i have to say that i totally agree with your observations about the attitude of the vietnamese people. they do not seem to be caught up in the madison avenue mantra that more is better. they are content to live their lives with a minimum amount of so called trinkets. i am in love with their country and will be relocating there with-in the next 6 months. i just purchased a house and will be moving there to marry and live with my girlfriend. it will be refreshing to live in a country where more is not necessarily better.



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Re: Philip Jones Griffiths Q & A - war photography and Vietnam
As recently as last year the Vietnamese Communists were dragging Catholics out of Mass and murdering them in front of their congregations by pouring boiling water down their throats. Too my in-laws have been scurrying around in VN to transpose the remains of their deceased relatives because the Commies have been digging up Catholic graveyards and desecrating remains on the pretext of needing the land. " ...the United States of America was endeavouring to impose its value system on the Vietnamese."??? " The war that the US unleashed..."??? Just what then is Communist genocidal religious persecution??? The "tolerance" so highly touted by the left? We have seen 35-66 million killed by the Bolshevists in Russia. That holocaust, like ongoing Vietnamese and Israeli genocide, goes down the leftist memory hole. Philip Jones Griffiths obviously has a propaganda axe to grind. Terry Dolorosa Danville CA



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Re: Philip Jones Griffiths Q & A - war photography and Vietnam
Dear Philp, You are a wonderful photographer. I recall Vietnam Inc when it came out over thirty years ago and like you I have been in many ways formed by the long conflict between America and Vietnam. But I feel what you write in your article and in your forum responses is wrong and even damaging to the Vietnamese. You romanticise them and idealise them as having an “innate wisdom that makes them wary of the siren calls of the advertisers” which they don’t have. For example, you describe the American relocation programme as designed separate the people from a 2,000 year old agrarian Confucian culture and replace it with US consumer capitalism in the cities. On the contrary Vietnamese communism which led the national liberation forces was born of an attack upon Confucian values not their preservation. Sophie Quinn-Judge describes this in her openDemocracy article, which is also a really helpful overview of Vietnamese culture today. In most of South Vietnam the genocidal forced urbanization which was designed to destroy the resistance in the countryside did not move people from ancestral lands as you seem to imply. The Mekong delta was not inhabited by the Vietnamese until the French arrived in the mid-nineteenth century and drained the delta (as the British had done in Burma) creating rich fertile rice-lands. The Vietnamese settled there to make money, if they could, and live better. Yes, they have their own special national culture and traditions. But the Vietnamese are just like the rest of us. This is what made their resistance heroic (and their present government despicable). I’ve a funny story about this. In the forum you write that the Vietnamese “have an intelligence that promotes an evaluative approach, one that considers the opportunities before action. As I’ve written elsewhere, ‘The Americans had the smart bombs but the Vietnamese had the smart minds’”. When I was in Hanoi I found people with an independent spirit but also a chaotic one. Talking about this one of them told me that one reason they won the war was that the Americans knew where the Vietnamese Army units were supposed to be and bombed them, but in fact they were usually late or had gone the wrong way, which is why the US often missed! It was not because they were super smart that they got the better of the Americans, it was because they were lazy, disobedient, and plain stubborn, in short human – and fighting for their own country. Anthony Barnett



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Re: Philip Jones Griffiths Q & A - war photography and Vietnam
Phil, Your views on The US having an empire and the US being on a rampage are as inflated as the self-proclaimed importance of your work. Are you trying to promote justice, or yourself? Perhaps you should take up synchronized swimming.



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Re: Philip Jones Griffiths Q & A - war photography and Vietnam
dscmpny, You can own property in a communist country? For someone who doesn't want trinkets, you're acquiring quite a baubble. I don't know your heritage, but if it is anything other than oriental, the orientals can be just as unfriendly to outsiders as any people on earth.



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Re: Philip Jones Griffiths Q & A - war photography and Vietnam
Considering the role of Roman Catholicism throughout Viet Nam history the tolerance of the present government is astounding. The introduction of the foreign religion of the colonialists successfully claimed the loyalty of a percentage of the population -- mainly misfits and those eager to ingratiate themselves with their masters for economic gain. They were the collaborators, fifth-columnist spies and informers for the French betraying their own people. (This, even today, is standard operating practice in many countries.) After the signing of the Geneva Accords in 1954, northern Catholics were persuaded to flee south by leaflets dropped by America warning that the Virgin Mary had gone south and urging the faithful to follow. The purpose was to provide a base of support in the south for Diem, a fanatical Roman Catholic installed as President by a cabal of US Roman Catholics headed by Cardinal Spellman, who later distinguished himself by encouraging soldiers departing for Viet Nam to “Kill a Commie for Christ!” Diem’s atrocities committed against the Buddhist people of South Viet Nam makes the tolerance displayed by the present government even more remarkable. As for “pouring boiling water down their throats” it seems you’re confusing Viet Nam with accounts of the Spanish Inquisition!



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Re: Philip Jones Griffiths Q & A - war photography and Vietnam
Dear Anthony, I will try to answer your points in order: America had a relocation programme – the communists did not. Indeed, as Paul Mus pointed out, Ho Chi Minh always recognised that Viet Nam had to modernise and his genius was his ability to graft European Marxism onto local Confucianism. This resulted in a move away from superstition while enlisting some of its important traditional values. He never set out to obliterate the indigenous religion. The “genocidal forced urbanization” DID happen and it WAS from their ancestral lands. We might not think of our dead parents as “ancestors” but the Vietnamese certainly do. Therefore the time factor is not relevant. And even if it was, the relocated families in the Mekong Delta would be leaving behind up to ten generations of buried ancestors. On your last point, yes, the Vietnamese are unpredictable – but they still have smart minds! I also have a similar story to yours. In 1989 I interviewed Lt. General Phan Quang Tiep, Commander of the Truong Son Division, whilst making a film on the Ho Chi Minh Trail for the BBC. Here is what I wrote at the time: I asked Lieutenant General Phan Quang Tiep which of the schemes used to fool the sensors (dropped on the trail) was the most effective. He explained that the American system was set up by Western minds that thought along scientific lines. The Vietnamese, he insisted, were inherently unpredictable. The (US) computer would plot the average speed of a convoy and bomb accordingly, without taking into account some drivers’ frequent stops for meals and to repair the over-worked lorries. Other drivers would simply drive as fast as possible without a break, which equally confused the computer.



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Re: Philip Jones Griffiths Q & A - war photography and Vietnam
Dear Philip, I'd like to ask you four questions: Have you worked with local Vietnamese photographers lately? What is the effect of globalization and of the technical revolution- digital cameras etc. on their work? Is photography socially engaged among the young Vietnamese or concerned mainly with consumerism or fantasy? Bill Gates Vs. Ho Chi Minh. How is this translated in the visual artistic language of Vietnamese artists? Are they just bringing US imagery or putting their local vision into the new consumerist values? How do you relate the lack of memory among Young (East) Germans concerning Nazism (where shame may be behind the denial) and that of young Vietnamese (who must have witnessed the universal sympathy with their parents' resistance) who see Bill Gates as their hero?



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Re: Philip Jones Griffiths Q & A - war photography and Vietnam
Dear Philip, Thank you for your lifetime of work. I can't tell you how important your new book is, especially now, for those of us living in the US, who are witnessing the dangerous resurrection of the Vietnam War myths. Last night I watched a series on the History Channel on the Vietnam War. They interviewed American combat vets, who spoke teary eyed as they relived their battles. The interviews were cut with TV news footage and combat photography from Hue. The tired marines, the fallen comrades, the Americans under fire but heroes to the end. I felt sick, I felt betrayed, not one image, not one peep about the Vietnamese. I also felt confused as some of the black and white photography was spectacular, but in the end, it just seemed to reinforce the myth that the Vietnam war was a heroic and honorable enterprise and not the genocide you have shown it to be. Which brings me to a question... Is it possible to make combat photography that doesn't reinforce the myths of war and the warrior? And if so, what does it look like now? So many of the soldier pictures I have seen out of Iraq seem to paint a benign image of the combatant, even those taken by "famous" photographers. The deception is even greater when the images are beautiful because of light or sophisticated composition. I think of the sandstorm pictures on the road to Baghdad, or the countless images of backlit soldiers marching across the desert at sunset, or those insufferable shots through green night vision goggles. I believe one reason the Abu Ghraib torture pictures were so shocking, was because they were in such stark contrast to the cliche images we have seen over and over of American soldiers taken by American and European photogrphers who are themselves excited to be in conflict situations and can't help feeling invested in the soldiers who are charged with protecting them. Thank you, Nina Berman New York City



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Re: Philip Jones Griffiths Q & A - war photography and Vietnam
Dear Mr Griffith, First of all I just wanted to thank you for all the work you have done. To me photographing and documenting the world around us is something that is starting to become a lost art in the world of the MTV generation. We are all to concerned with pop culture rather than real issues that are going on in the world. My question to you is; How did you go about trying to get the stories together? Also when you are putting together projects now, how and who do you get to finance and funding that is needed? It seams to me that less and less newspapers and magazines are interested in documentary photographic work. Regards Richard Evans



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Re: Philip Jones Griffiths Q & A - war photography and Vietnam
i would simply like to add to the last post by saying do you think photojournalism is dead or is it adapting to new outlets , also phillip do you think the american cultural imperialism will turn backwards after a while . thanks for all you good work phillip ... jimi



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Re: Philip Jones Griffiths Q & A - war photography and Vietnam
Hi Phillip, I'm a great admirer of your work, not only from a photographic point of view but perhaps primarily because of its integrity. In an age when these qualities are so rare and the willingness of mainstream publishers to print hard hitting stories seems to be ever diminishing; where do you see the future for documentary photography, in a celebrity obsessed world? Without wanting to be completely negative I find myself in a constant lament for the great bastions of photojournalism, it seems even the Sunday Times cares more for the celebrity of the banal as opposed to the exploration of the hidden truth. Regards and my gratitude Giles



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Re: Philip Jones Griffiths Q & A - war photography and Vietnam
Dear Philip, I would like to begin, if I may, by passing along a few comments about your work and how it speaks to me personally. In doing so I'd like ask you some questions and to mention some of my own impressions of Viet Nam and of its people as they appear to me as well. The great value of your images as I find them is in their relentless focus on the slide of history and that the work taken as whole tends to possess a dignity that comes from an admiration of a people coming from behind the lens that captured them. These can be unsettling and raw...sometimes exquisite with poise. The best can speak to larger truths. But who are the photos for? I am not certain they are for this generation of Vietnamese. Are they are not a dialogue with yourself? In my limited experience the Vietnamese Kinh people they seem a group which grounds itself in an age-old relational identity of which the core is family and then extending to the larger continuity of the clan. It is a universe of blood and earth and the great pantheon of ancestors residing therein. The Communists laid moral claim this fact in the past and would (perhaps) like to think that they do so today still. This strength was something which the Americans with their insolent disregard for a history larger than themselves believed they could surpass. And, of course, they failed. This fact is priceless. Are your photographs not a record of this failure and of the price of that victory? This grounding I've just referred to in their land and their past has helped anchor the Vietnamese people from some of the worst that acquisitive consumer culture plays to. But what the future may hold is uncertain still. A generation has grown of age with the onslaught televised generated needs and to which they are basically defenseless. And is there is there not always a danger in idealizing the foreign as wiser and more noble than ourselves as you do in your otherwise fine introduction. Vietnam is older and more enduring, yes. But ask them yourself: are not the weaknesses of human nature the same where ever we find them?



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Re: Philip Jones Griffiths Q & A - war photography and Vietnam
Dear Nina, I think we have to accept that the old adage, “The history of a war is written by the winners” is definitely not true in the case of the Viet Nam! A huge industry consisting of revisionist historians (See Morris’ prevarications in last Saturday’s New York Times Op-ed page), conscripted academics, authors, movie and, yes, TV companies are busy obfuscating the truth. The same goes for Iraq. So your concerns are valid. Some of the pictures do look as if they’ve been shot for Army ads. This is one of the penalties for being embedded. Photographs of civilian casualties are ignored by the mainstream American press, yet pictures do exist. DAYSJAPAN magazine has given us a glimpse of what Americans have been denied. Even the Abu Ghraib pictures only represent a tiny proportion of all the abuse photographs taken. I’ve seen some of the others and perhaps they’ve never been shown because there’s not enough Dramamine to go around. Congratulations to you for the work you’ve done in humanising the conflict! Thank YOU, Philip



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Re: Philip Jones Griffiths Q & A - war photography and Vietnam
Dear Mai Ghoussoub, 1/ On the technical side the ones I know have almost all switched to digital. They are the photographers either on contract to Western News Agencies or freelancing. Others, also using digital, are amateurs photographing as part of the excellent PHOTOVOICE project. 2/ Vietnamese photography covers a wide range. The traditional “pictorial” style is being slowly replaced by more socially aware concerns. 3/ Art in general and photography is general have always encompassed a whiff of derivation. So, yes, some are affected by the new style of contentless pictures. Others delight in pointing out life’s incongruities. 4/ The kids were confused (especially in Ho Chi Minh City, the old Saigon) by an avalanche of Western influences, especially the Internet. But remember, they were all born long after the war was over and represent the urban elite – about 25% of the 20% of people who live in urban centres. (80% of the people live in the countryside.) So I’m referring to less than 5% of the population that has the financial access to magazines. Nowadays I’ve found a shift amongst the young towards a more critical view of their history. Philip



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Re: Philip Jones Griffiths Q & A - war photography and Vietnam
Dear Richard Evans You are quite right; these are tough times for photojournalism. Some say the pendulum will swing back to the old days before the great dumbing down occurred. One solution is to see photojournalism as a passion rather than a profession. I have made 26 trips to post-war Viet Nam, about a third on assignment and the rest in the hope that Magnum would later place my stories in magazines around the world. Finance is always a problem but there again the costs in Viet Nam are less than half those in the US. Air travel is cheap. I only shoot B/W when not on assignment and develop and print myself. Good stories will always get published, somewhere, some time. Good luck to you, Philip



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Re: Philip Jones Griffiths Q & A - war photography and Vietnam
Dear Jimi, To add to what I’ve replied to Richard Evans, photojournalism will NEVER die. The Internet and on-demand publishing are avenues that hold hope for the future, although financial remuneration remains elusive. There is no evidence that American intentions are being reviewed. They have the bit between their teeth and are galloping ahead. And it’s not just cultural imperialism! If Iran goes they will control everything from the Mediterranean to India. Philip



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Re: Philip Jones Griffiths Q & A - war photography and Vietnam
Dear Giles, See my replies to Richard and Jimi. It is indeed a grim time. But there are, here and there, magazines that do publish serious stories. One way is to work with an agency or even sell direct. Find a magazine that still uses compound sentences, make yourself known to them, get their ftp site, the Fetch programme for $25 and zap your pictures directly. Make sure you only send them pictures they’ve never seen before – YOUR original take on the world! Philip



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Re: Philip Jones Griffiths Q & A - war photography and Vietnam
Dear Philip, I just wanted to say thank you for responding to my comments. Documentary/photojournalism is a real passion for me and know that it is hard to make a living. In a world of material wealth it is hard for people to understand that you can gain richness in life other than money. Currently I am trying to get work published a put projects together but working on my own can be very hard. I am lucky that I have friends and family who don’t mind me crashing at there places when I’m back in England. Thank you once again for the inspiration and all the brilliant photographs you have taken over the years. If you have time I would be honoured if you would take a look at my website, it is still being worked on but will show you a selection of photographs. www.richard-evans.com Regards Richard


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