cole 1- in most islamic countries , it is not legal to have boyfriend or girlfriend, and you know what Iam meaning, it is not innocent relation. but when friends are girls or boys seperated , it is innocent relation. of course sometimes we like our friends of the same sex, as their are limits of friendships, and the other , sorry to say is adultry. 2- I think even muslims young raised in foreign countries, they adopt that, it is a must or our society will be deteriorated and I think this is now the only thing may be we have to be proud of it, as still any relation between man and women have to be under marriage , or it will consider corruption and God will punish us, that is inserted in our genes and even muslims and arabs who dont practise islam and live all their live may be in the west , adopt strongly this moral which I think is logic and recommended by all relegions. 3- Yes the reality of islam is to have a clean , legal, relegious, holy bonds of only marriages and other is playing and lying and commiting sins and illegal kids who suffer more and more. 4- for your informaiton , even the educated people and even uncovered women whom may be learned and educated in the west and still wearing western clothes, her family and she cares much about being virgin untill marriage. Even if she didnt marry all her life, she will keep that as a very strong and never she will let her father shame of her, as the father gave her freedom and that is a basic rule and even if it happens , the women really is under pressure and may be she will loose her life, even islam dont encourage that , but we all raised like that and we have to keep it for ever. Never men of the family will be respected , if one of their women commit adultry , it is a big crime . See the difference between our culture and yours, and never it will meet in that issue.

cole 1- what you said is not wright, as yes islam care much about the purity or women as she is the basic element in the forming of a good family , and islam encourage to marry women who also are relegious beside of course beauty or her family reputation and other. do you mr cole to be like western counrties as our kids dont know their parents or are scattered and given to be adopted. There must be raising to keep our tradition which is not difficult. 2- most of muslim women go abroad , even to study and some in western countries and hold their certificates , then come to their countries and married good people and have kids without loosing this important issue, and all my friends and also my sister without a man with her or my father (mercy to him ), also she got married like millions of muslim women. 3- Believe it or not ,even our muslim men , when they go western countries, and go deep and may be sometimes in their life have girlfriend, but when they return back, they insist on marrying such like these women and I read long time about a study done in the west , that the muslim women is the first of the world in least having sexiual transmitted diseases like AIDS and others , and you know the reason ? 4- Yes , some muslims women and men sometimes go together, but if they caught even by their family it is a shame and costs much, and they doing it hiding and later they regret, as they call it satan act. But the majority convinced by their nature it is a big sin . 5- yes they go to police if not married , and that is the rule even in rich countries which are much open to the west . 6- I didnt understand the last point , as not to feel sorry for muslim women, it is simple we dont want to have boyfriends or girlfriends before marriage as also in my point of view , if a man or a women have many relations before marriage, so even their will be no taste for marriage and in my opinion the love will go, when the women first time have her husband she will loves and respect him much , as she was waiting for him to come and both will live happy, as women like only one man in her life to dedicate for him. I dont kmow you how you think ? It is also emotionally. 7- you forget that widow muslim women or divorced , can marry again, but they also dont do relations outside marriage , eventhough if they are not virgins. It is our custom which is also obeying God in that and following islam and because of that the only practised relegion in the world by their followers is islam and this is only one issue, and of course their is exeptions , but majority do tell now and I think for ever. 4- Driniking wine publically is forbiden , and I dont know what others is forbidden, all evil act and from satan is forbidden and that is ok.

lol, ok whatever you said!

steelers forget the post I send it as to send your post again in the thread of lashes, finally I got it and I dont know how , by first registering and go around many times, so I save your time now.

mrbbrj 1- There is no connection between democracy and that issue, also muslim countries are different, but the rule is like that in suadi arabia 2- Eg.in the country Iam living, before 4 days was the wedding of my brother and did it in a big hall, in one of a famous club and it was mixed , even all of us are muslims and of course we invites some of neughbors who are foreigners and yes we dance as a family, men and women as dabka and all invitations was to our relatives and friends which were 300 persons, of course alcohol is forbidden and also some of our releigous cousins say sorry to us as they dont like to attend mixed celebrations and we accept their apology. It is up to them and we respect their wishes. many women wear scarf and dance with their husbands, also we bring a music group and really sings palestinian songs and we have men wearing traditional palestinain clothes and dance dabka which was very nice and let us go back to our dreams of returning back to palestine. we are not so complicated, and like to enjoy, but with limits. 2- husbands were dancing with wifes and singing , and all participate, even me dance with my brother and his groom and these parties are allowed and in public and no police will come to arrest . We can choose the wright path as we know prohibition and at the same time we enjoy that historical day.

april_keating 1- It is not only AiDs, there are many sexually transmitted diseases which are less life threatining as syphillus,and many others as I forget names, but these statistics are easy to be known by united nations of the world health organization . Not much secretes will remain for ever. I will not tell you that their are not aids cases among arab countries, but they are very few of men used to travel outside to specific places. 2- If u live in a muslim and arab country , you alone will agree with me. it is very clear even without study, but I read that study before and hear about it. 3- Being virgin tell marriage is not only for the husband, it is commitment towards our relegion and fearing God , and of course the culture based on this teaching. In addition as kids born will know their parents and will not live seperated and complicated and I witness one western person which I think he is psychologically ill from that his father left him when 12 years old as becasue of divorce from his mother and because different in relegion between father and mother , which later Iam convinced that it is better each partner to be of the same relegion. So imagin how will the kids will raise if they are born illegally.

our second point is true. If everyone were virgin when married and never strayed or remarried sexual diseases would be greatly reduced an we wouldn't need preventativ yes, but these rules only ever apply to the men, so they catch nasty things from prostitutes and sodomy with their boyfriends, then giving it to the "pure virgins". It is all a lot of silly mediaeval nonsense.

And if you dont stay pure you will be stoned or lashed or killed!

Keith_4 - I think that may be one of the best examples of careless editing on quotes that I have every seen. "Your point" became "our point" which is makes quite a difference to the sense of the quote in fact it reverses the meaning. Abdulsaida You have just stated that some adulterers will not be exposed or confess so clearly the fact that one partner is faithful doesn't mean that they aren't exposed to STDs.