Here you have the critical distinction between those who debate with knowledge of this subject and those who do not. Westerners who know the Muslim world, who've actually spent time in person in Muslim countries, Arab and non-Arab, speak with knowledge and tolerance of Muslims, with nuance, with intelligence and compassion. They are INFORMED and therefore their opinions are based on substance. Those who know nothing of Islam and Muslims except what they choose to read about from afar, those who deliberately CHOOSE to know Muslims only from selective realities like bombings and quotes from selective websites and sermons, speak with ignorance, bigotry and intolerance (while hypocritically lauding their own supposed tolerance). If you are predisposed to bigotry, nothing can shake you from it---much like religious radicals like Al Qaeda and abortion clinic bombers. Therefore it's useless to try to argue with such a person. I studied at the American University in Cairo and American University in Beirut in the 80s. I've traveled and worked with the Middle East division of Human Rights Watch and taught English in various countries including Egypt, Syria, Tunisia, Qatar and Dubai. I've spent amazingly memorable, wondrous days getting to know Iran, Turkey, Pakistan, Malaysia and Indonesia. I only spent a week in Afghanistan (the northern part) and went there because I was desperate to see the Blue Mosque, a gorgeous structure and a beautiful example of Islamic art and architecture. I did visit Saudia Arabia and spent quite a bit of time in the US and British enclaves (both extremely nice areas to live). I was born and raised in the Catholic church and am originally from Brazil. I've spent most of my life working in, studying in or travelling in parts of Latin America, the Caribbean, Africa, the Middle East and South Asia (but only just touched the Far East). (I have always wanted to go to China but unfortunately never got there; I'm still hoping I'll make it there before long.) Like the first poster, I experienced the same kind of generosity of spirit, warmth, humor, hospitality all over the Muslim world. Westerners who actually spend time in the region have a much fairer, nuanced, tolerant view of the people and culture there. Travel writers like Scott Davis--whose wonderful book The Road From Damascus conveys the uninformed westerner's introduction to what is in fact a deeply complex and fascinating country--are just one of many who discovered how deeply ignorant people in the west are about the region, and how much we have to learn. Anyone who truly follows the discussions and debates raging among Muslims all over the world (and for decades, but especially now) knows full well the depth and richness of these debates. Muslim internet discussion groups debate issues of sex, homosexuality, politics every single day. There are Muslim magazines, conferences, books, journals that engage in debates and self-reflection every day. There are plenty of secular Arab and Pakistani sources online and offline that discuss religious issues in their countries every day as well. There are Muslim sites like islamfortoday.com, maryams.net (Muslim feminists -- yes they do exist and there are a lot of them; that's only one of many sites that represent them) and so many others that I check into regularly; Muslim discussion lists on yahoo and google where debates rage about their religion and their different countries. The notion that Muslims are a static, uniform, unchanging people, that they never question or debate their beliefs -- that over 200 million people spanning the globe are all the same, that they can all be labeled into one gigantic STAMP of subhuman terrorist species as so many bigots on this site and all over the net believe is flatly inaccurate and comes from a UNINFORMED mind. Owly says he's a Christian and presumably believes that as a Christian he is superior morally, politically and spiritually to the subhumans species of Muslims (200-300 million human beings encompassing a huge diversity of people from dozens of cultures around the world). Since he believes he's superior, there's no arguing with him. No information or experience contradicting his views can convince him of anything.

You obviously experienced the best of what the culture of the countries you visited had to offer. Try visiting Bradford and experience the "Islamic" culture there, whether it is the most palatable or not, it is Islamic. The few radicals that you suggest spoil it for the rest of us, is not realistic. When an Islamic leader of the community makes a public statement it is usually qualified, and it really doesn’t represent the views of the people on the street. Example, Leader condemns 9/11, beards are grown at an unprecedented rate. True feelings are not conveyed because that would be treason. Palatable comments are made to placate and mislead. So how is progress to be made? You cant discuss this over a pint and fish and chips, so where can you? The Web? There is more comment from out of touch intellectuals, scholars and professors with a yearning to have their thesis on the internet. Travellers that "know" because they have been "there". Do gooders that assume to be liberal is the answer to everything. Proponents of "Integration" without having a clue what to integrate and how (and what for). Which is OK.. But where is the comment from the not so "few" people that make up the popular culture? They don’t discuss and probably never had, outside of their own circle. Where is the social environment where this could happen? They are not engaging in communication, but they are engaging in action. So that leaves us with a problem. The government thought integration, and Islam thought never behave like the west. So whos to give in? The Koran cannot be compromised, so the western way of life should change to be Islamic,….. that should do it. Then we’ll all live like we where on holiday in a respectful and decent Arabic culture. But really, oil and water dont mix, both are good substances but never when mixed together. There are lots of people that will get lost in the detail trying to prove otherwise, using their holidays and superior geographical knowledge etc and they still wont have any answer. (If you think you do please tell me)