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The (Il)logic of Nuclear deterrence


Posts: 234
Joined: 2004-12-12
Nuclear Deterrence and Logic In principle, if the consequences of the failure of a system would be infinitely destructive to a civilisation, it is reasonable for that civilisation to use that system if and only if the probability of its failure are zero. Does the possession of nuclear weapons by a number of states in the international community constitute a system, that is, a group of interrelated parts forming a whole? It is certain that they are interrelated; the possession of these weapons by one state is indeed the driver for a second state to obtain its own weapons, forming a chain reaction of nuclear weapons proliferation which the NPT seeks, with surprising success, to restrain. They also form a system in the sense of classical Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD) deterrence, whereby opposed states are restrained from using their weapons in warfare because of the threat of retaliation by its opponent. So nuclear weapons do form a group of interrelated parts. Do they form a whole? In classical deterrence, the answer given by supporters of deterrence theory was a categorical affirmative. For them, the balance of nuclear forces between West and East created a state of peace for fifty years. A more neutral point of view would agree that the existence of nuclear weapons does indeed raise the threshold for declaring war. So all parties can agree that the outcome of collective nuclear weapons possession is an inhibition of declaration of war, a relative state of world peace, which is the single product of the many parts, and therefore nuclear weapons possession on the part of many nations is a system. Next, can the system fail? Nuclear deterrence is a complex arrangement of electronic sensors embedded in a command and control network composed of humans working to hard protocols that are interwoven with pattern judgements and valuations which are affected by the emotional state of the individuals and groups that make the judgements. The groups themselves, particularly the supreme decision making groups, are isolated from the common body of humanity, and are known to be susceptible to a condition known as group think – defined as A mode of thinking that people engage in when they are deeply involved in a cohesive in-group, when the members' strivings for unanimity override their motivation to realistically appraise alternative courses of action. Moreover, the interplay of decision makers is now far more complex than in the days of the cold war, with players coming on to the field who might not view the destruction of the prevailing world civilisation as a thing to be avoided at all costs, and other players already on the scene who believe that nuclear weapons could be used tactically without risking a strategic exchange. In short, it is entirely reasonable to judge that the probability of failure of the nuclear deterrence system is greater than zero. Would the breakdown of the nuclear deterrence be infinitely destructive? This is point that must be settled by a value judgement. First, would it be possible to get away with a limited exchange, or would one nuclear detonation inevitably escalate into an all out global nuclear war? It is impossible to give a definitive answer to that question, but the safest assumption to make is that if one weapon is detonated, they will all be fired. The reason for this lies in the doctrine of first strike, which aims to destroy the opponent’s weapons before they can be fired. Once it is known that an opponent has detonated a nuclear weapon, the pressure will be on for supreme commanders to fire all their nuclear weapons before they lose them to a first strike. In view of this, although we cannot say that any exchange would inevitably lead to a first strike, it would be the height of folly for anyone to assume that they could use weapons in a limited tactical strike and believe that matters would then be allowed to rest by the opposition. Unfortunately this is the prevailing nuclear doctrine of the United States of America. They consider that nuclear weapons could be used tactically, as an extension of a conventional military campaign. In doing so, they may trigger an all-out nuclear war. Would an all out strategic nuclear exchange be infinitely destructive? There are estimated to be at least 27,000 nuclear weapons in the world held by at least eight countries, 96 percent of them in the possession of the United States and Russia. The effects of all-out nuclear war were well studied in the 1980s. Physically, the most interesting possible effect is the so-called Nuclear Winter, where atmospheric soot cuts off sunlight for a period of weeks or months. When the sunlight returns, the effects of city and forest fires will have been to increase the atmospheric CO2 load, thus exacerbating global warming. Species loss will increase, secondary to habitat loss. Of these, the loss of bees will be most important, since cessation of their pollination services will lead to failure of such crops as survivors may try to plant. Ironically, rats and cockroaches are resistant to radiation, and so will flourish, given the plentiful quantities of human and animal carrion available. To say the least, economic growth after a nuclear war would be unlikely. In fact a global economic recession or even a depression is almost inevitable, and to be replaced by a survival economy based around obtaining water, food, warmth and shelter for the group. Life will be short, and cancers plentiful, but health services would be rudimentary, and analgesics in short supply. Gangsterism will flourish, and self interest is likely to become the norm. In summary, it is entirely reasonable to expect that an all out nuclear exchange would lead to the end of western civilisation. It would therefore be infinitely destructive. In terms of the model set out at the beginning, the consequences of the failure of a nuclear deterrence system would indeed be infinitely destructive to our civilisation, the probability of its failure is greater than zero, and therefore it is illogical for our civilisation to use that system. Since the syllogism contains a value judgement, and there will inevitably be others who take a different view. However, they are compelled to argue either that the deterrence system is perfectly safe, which is manifestly not the case, or that a tactical weapon would not lead to an all-out nuclear war, which is clearly not provable, or that an all-out nuclear war would not destroy civilisation, which is clearly unreasonable. In the circumstances, however, because of the uncertainties involved, it is safer to take a precautionary view. The great majority of humanity view the possibility of all out nuclear war with a great deal of distaste. They should be helped to understand that the nuclear deterrence system is not infallible, and that these weapons are quite capable of being used in anger. This should then motivate them to exercise their democratic right and duty to remove from political office anyone who believes that it is reasonable for any state to possess nuclear weapons. Dr Richard Lawson



Posts: 943
Joined: 2005-11-22
['It is impossible to give a

'[It is impossible to give a definitive answer to that question, but the safest assumption to make is that if one weapon is detonated, they will all be fired. The reason for this lies in the doctrine of first strike, which aims to destroy the opponent’s weapons before they can be fired. Once it is known that an opponent has detonated a nuclear weapon, the pressure will be on for supreme commanders to fire all their nuclear weapons before they lose them to a first strike']

Richard, This reasoning seems to only hold up for countries that are susceptible to having all, or nearly all, of their nuclear weapons destroyed in a first strike scenario. Countries such as Russian and America, now probably China as well, have long ago solved this problem through sheer volume of nuclear weapons, mobile launching pads, nuclear capable submarines, long-range nuclear equipped bombers, hidden nuclear sites, and missile defence systems.




Posts: 109
Joined: 2005-10-27
Headline: "Genie refuses to return to H-Bottle"
" This should then motivate them to exercise their democratic right and duty to remove from political office anyone who believes that it is reasonable for any state to possess nuclear weapons." Dr Lawson, Your definition of reasonable and mine are not far removed from one another. Having said that, your perception of reality and mine are worlds apart. Atomic Technology is now at the fingertips of the entire world via the internet. Do you honestly believe that MAN will, regardless of His country of origin, give up the power and prestige that a weapon of mass destruction provides? Who has the power to force others not to build, test and launch ? America, Great Britain, China and Russia have failed miserably when any country has made the leap to nuclearize their weapons inventory. If it were so simple as to “not Vote”. This is a rehash of old arguments and older failures. I am reminded of “Duck and Cover when I read your piece and it makes me wonder why you wasted all that time and energy for a DR.



Posts: 234
Joined: 2004-12-12
Responding to a first strike
Would it be safe to assume then that countries that have massive numbers of nuclear weapons would passively endure a first strike on their missiles, without retaliation, simply because they could say, " We have plenty where that came from"?. I do not think that would be a safe assumption. The safe assumption is that if one goes they all go.



Posts: 234
Joined: 2004-12-12
No hope
This is a counsel of despair. "We cannot change human nature, leaders will always seek ever greater destructive power, WMD are here to stay indefinitely". Given then that deterrence is fallible, this implies that we will inevitably, sooner or later, have a nuclear war. Yes, we do have an irrational, violent, chimpanzee side to our nature. We also have the ability to reason. I hope you will forgive me for exercising the latter.



Posts: 234
Joined: 2004-12-12
...a definitive answer
Can we really assume that even a country plentifully supplied with NW would lie back and allow a first strike on its nuclear armoury, thinking "Well, we have plenty more". ? The only safe assumption is, "One out, all out". Rationality is a thin veneer over our primitive self. Nuclear detonations will unmask it.



Posts: 234
Joined: 2004-12-12
Despair - or Consider
Ron Allen gives a counsel of despair. The Bomb: we cannot ininvent it, we cannot influence our leaders, so we must learn to love the bomb and live with it...until it brings about the end of the world. Nobody disinvented thumbscrews, but they are not much used now, except perhaps in Guantanamo Bay, which even Tony Blair described as an "anomaly". Nobody disinvented slavery, but it is not openly practiced now, although it does take place covertly. Yes, we have a chimpanzee side to our nature, and this is much in evidence in our current leaders. But we do also have a logical and rational side, and I hope you will forgive me for exercising this facility, Ron.



Posts: 943
Joined: 2005-11-22
thumbscrews out, guillotine in!
You may be right, but the scenario you've given is too broad and too hypothetical for me to be entirely convinced. I do however think that Ron is being more than reasonable in questioning mankind's ability to overcome his irrationality, and though you've correctly pointed out that nobody had to 'disinvent' thumbscrews, you forgot to mention why - because they invented a bigger and better 'thumbscrew''.



Posts: 234
Joined: 2004-12-12
Irrationality
If you believe we cannot overcome our irrationality, then there is little point in our debating, is there?



Posts: 1014
Joined: 2004-10-07
Non-state Actors
Dr. Lawson, They also form a system in the sense of classical Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD) deterrence, whereby opposed states are restrained from using their weapons in warfare because of the threat of retaliation by its opponent. The problem is your assessment is backward-looking rather than forward-looking to an era of rogue nations and non-state actors triggering a nuclear armageddon. MAD requires a sense of self-preservation. How do you reconcile that with nations such as Iran, whose leadership welcomes armageddon and indeed, seeks an opportunity to hasten its arrival as a means of achieving their warped religious ideology? It is not we who cannot overcome our irrationality, but the irrationality of Islamic fascisim which cannot be overcome. This might make the debate moot, but not the threat.
--

Boring and enraging Liberals with the truth since 2004




Posts: 943
Joined: 2005-11-22
Irrationality, Continued…
Of course we have the ability to overcome certain irrational thoughts and impulses; I personally do it all the time, though I'd be lying if I said I did it all the time. But no, I don't believe we can overcome our irrationality in the sense that it can be removed from being a part of the human condition. Why, or how, does my holding this belief render a conversation on nuclear disarmament pointless?



Posts: 943
Joined: 2005-11-22
erased
erased



Posts: 943
Joined: 2005-11-22
erased. Could this forum be
erased. Could this forum be any buggier?



Posts: 234
Joined: 2004-12-12
Rationality and Irrationality
Chris9234, I was responding to this: "Ron is being more than reasonable in questioning mankind's ability to overcome his irrationality". My thesis is that it is irrational to employ a system is almost certain to destroy our civilisation. Therefore, we should stop using that system. What Ron , with your backing, seems to be saying is that we are intrinsically irrational beings, so there is no point in trying to think in a logical way about nuclear weapons. If there is no point in trying to think in a logical way about nuclear weapons, then there is no point in our discussing it. On the other hand, I do accept that much of human motivation is irrational, the global arms trade and nuclear weaponry being a case in point, but that even so, it is worth while thinking about these things logically and rationally. This is what Conginitive Behavioral Therapy is bringing, with notable success, to the treatment of psychiatric disorder of individuals.



Posts: 109
Joined: 2005-10-27
Richard
Debating this topic is more than worthwhile and I am grateful you brought it up. The disconnect for me is the use of CBT. I am a child of more therapy models than you can shake a stick at. With that said, I attempt to keep my thinking simple and as such, black and white as possible, with a touch of gray. The genie is out of the bottle when we talk Atomic. I believe that it is irrational to have a weapon that will destory life as we know it. How does one put the genie back in the bottle? How would you limit countries from investing in the research, testing and deployment of atomic weapons? It is more than irrational to say we should just throw them away. Since you have opened such a powerful debate, please do not act out by stating you will stop playing if you don't get your way. "If there is no point in trying to think in a logical way about nuclear weapons, then there is no point in our discussing it." I am not picking at you, but it appears that your "therapy model" gets in the way. You have mentioned that you will not debate if Chris and I do not follow your logic. If that is the case then I will end my portion of this affair. If you are willing to look at prevention of new and destruction of old weaponry, I am all for it. Pie in the sky thinking will not resolve this dilemma. Logic is fine, though I believe in facts and common sense. I look forward to hearing more from Chris and you in the days ahead.



Posts: 1343
Joined: 2003-05-03
Let's look on the bright side
It's entirely possible that there will be a nuclear incident resulting in the deaths of a few million people. If this concentrates minds, we will have the motivation that led to the creation of the United Nations, following the horrors of WW2. A New United Nations could lead to a more peaceful world.



Posts: 522
Joined: 2005-02-27
Concern is OK but prognosis exaggerated
Richard, your argument is not new and we had a much more dangerous situation in the 60s when there was the megatonnage and delivery capability but without the same degree of capability in communication we have today. The standoff between the USA and the USSR was certainly a very dangerous state with plenty of hawks on both sides who may not be totally under executive control. A MAD scenario is much less likely today because control and communication is immensely better and the countries with such a capability would not react in an uncontrolled way. The proliferation of nuclear weapons does, of course, increase the risk of a nuclear exchange but not, at least so far, on a scale that would destroy the world. It may not be difficult for Iran to produce a nuclear weapon but it will be a long time before they are able to develop many. Given this I would hold that your thesis is not based on a correct premise in that I do not think that a Mutually Assured Destruction scenario is a likely outcome, so the consequences of failure would not result in the end of mankind. It is even (in a strict sense) not certain that this was ever the case, but we can all agree that such a scenario is best avoided. Everyone would agree, I think, that the world would be a safer place if countries were not armed to the teeth with weapons of such a destructive capability. But as has been said, this particular genie is out and we have to do our best to manage the situation. The chance of a "system failure", whereby there is a massive nuclear exchange, may be finite but it is very, very small now. Probably much smaller than the chance of a meteorite strike or other natural disaster over which we have no control. So your statistics, for those mathematically inclined, of small number (finite chance of system failure) multiplied by infinity (certainty of MAD) equals infinity (we are all going to die) is rather exaggerated. The finite chance of system failure leading to a MAD scenario is really very small and hopefully will not last forever. It is that we should not be vigilant in keeping it so, but just that there are many other issues in the world to worry about and in this particular case it is probable that the shortest direction to solving this problem is anything but a straight line.



Posts: 1343
Joined: 2003-05-03
Managing the situation
englishman, The Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty is the intended instrument for managing the situation. It requires non-nuclear states not to acquire nuclear weapons and nuclear states to disarm. You assume, despite the entire history of mankind, that we are rational in avoiding destruction. If this were so, we would implement the NNPT. That there is no likelihood of it being implemented makes our irrationality clear. Therefore, continuing proliferation, continuing upgrading of nuclear weapons, and related systems , make a nuclear incident highly probable.



Posts: 522
Joined: 2005-02-27
Managing the situation - realistically
Eric, my analysis was one of "where we are" rather than "where we may wish to be". I do not think that the chance of destruction of the human race is a likely outcome because we have developed systems, machine and human, that mean that such an event, at once a possibility, is now very unlikely. I at no time said that "a nuclear incident" was not a potential outcome. The development of nuclear devices without such control systems or the political desire to restrain their use does lead to the possibility of a "nuclear event" although I would contend that this would not lead to the MAD scenario which was part of the original postulate. Of course there is a time element so the longer we have political instability and development of nuclear weapons without any moral restraint to use them, the likleyhood of their use at some time will be higher. I do not think it anything like a certainty though and I would be wary of suggesting such an exaggerated stance if you are trying to convince people of this, as it simply weakens the good arguments for NNPT.



Posts: 1343
Joined: 2003-05-03
Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty
Englishman, The argument against the NNPT is that it has not the slightest possibility of achieving its aim. This demonstrates that we (human beings) are not committed to survival. Therefore, a nuclear incident is quite likely. Whether this leads to an acceleration of the arms race or a pause for prudent thought or, indeed, to still greater immediate destruction is what we shall see.



Posts: 522
Joined: 2005-02-27
The shortest distance...
Eric, at the present time the NNPT has certainly not got the slightest chance of achieving its aim. That does not mean its goal is wrong but merely that it simply will not be achieved any time soon. It is a playing out on a large scale of a complicated version of the prisoner's dilemma. You can point all you like to the hazards of maintaining nuclear arms but I do not sense that many governments are going to listen. Keep shouting though. As I said, I am just trying to state the situation as I see it and not how I would like to see it. I do not see it likely that there will be a nuclear armageddon. A nuclear exchange somewhere in the world? Possibly, but not inevitably. In politics the shortest distance between two points is rarely a straight line. The way for a grand nuclear disarmament does not seem apparent to me at the moment.



Posts: 234
Joined: 2004-12-12
?...not many Governments?
Dear Englishman, there are more than 190 states in the UN. Only 8 or 9 are Nuclear Weapons States (NWS). There is a great desire on the part of the non nuclear weapon states (NNWS) for the NWS actually to do what they have agreed to do in the NNPT - take serious steps to disarm. Only a couple of regimes are currently seeking to join the nuclear club. Each is spurred on by perceived nuclear threats against their national security by unfriendly (to their perceptions) NWS. The name of the game is Escalation through Mutual Paranoia . The longer NWS continue to cling to their nuclear addiction, the more NNWS will want to join the nuclear club, and the greater the probability of your "nuclear incident" (which, remember, may or may not grow into a global nuclear meltdown) actually taking place. The fact is that the vast majority of states want to see the end of NWs, but this development is held back by another unwelcome fact, that the UNSC permanent members are all NWS. This is a depressing and discouraging fact, but we should not allow it to make us feel depressed and discouraged, and therefore unable to act. We can still think rationally, which is a valuable if much underused property of the human brain. I recommend a visit to http://www.danplesch.net/ and a perusal of the Beauty Queen's Guide to World Peace. There you will find a road map out of this NW quagmire in which we find ourselves. Dan Plesch is fond of quoting one Henry Kissinger, who you may remember from the 70s, who is now saying, to anyone that will listen, that we have got to eliminate all nuclear weapons from the planet. What the politicians are waiting for is the political will to be made to move in the direction of general disarmament. Political will, remember, comes from the people. All it takes is for a certain threshold proportion of democratic citizens who are currently saying "I would like the world to change, but I as an individual can do nothing" to change their script to "I would like the world to change, and I am going to go and join up with those other people who want the same thing." and we can provide the political motivation. Success is not guaranteed. We may of course fail. What is guaranteed is that if we do nothing about the NNPT, politicians will also do nothing about the NNPT. IMHO. Richard



Posts: 234
Joined: 2004-12-12
Deterrence is Dead
Iron Mike, we are on the same side here!! I am making the same point: classical deterrence - based on the "rational" assessment that nobody in the system wants to commit suicie - is dead, because of exactly those irrational factors that you point out. I am not advocating nuclear deterrence, I want to see buried. Capisc'?


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