Message was edited by: The Firm Message was edited by: ursa9

I think that the three most important "punk" bands, historically and in terms of the development of ideas, were: 1) CRASS, who were the first to introduce serious politics (anarchism+pacifism+anti-sexism) and clever (intellectual?) satire to the scene. (see their "Feeding of the 5000" & "Stations of the Cross" albums for lyrics that still stand feels fresh) 2) Discharge, who took the peace message of CRASS a bit further by way of their new sounds of dooms-day music along with simple straight forward slogan (WAR IS NO FAIRYTALE etc) 3) Amebix, who took the ideas of the above 2 bands and the typical anarchist-punk lifestyle to, arguably, the logical end. Their aesticial protests ("slavery from the cradle to the grave" etc) led them, ultimately, to depression and drug-abuse. As far as I am aware, the "hard core" punk scene nowadays seems to have been pretty much mellowed-down to be "only for the music" and not too much for protest. Essentially -though this is generally speaking only and there are of course several exclusions- punk bands that should be developing the spirit and ideas of the three bands mentioned above, to my mind, seem to be just that: only for the music. The arguement that punk-culture leds people to changing perceptions re: the world generally, war, politics, vegetarianism etc and ultimately therefore people become more involved/active in the socalled "fight" for a better world is, still, valid. However, today I think the punk-scene is quite segregated from activist groups worldwide -be they media-critical groups and websites, animal liberation, pro-democracy and political (such as Anarchist groups) etc (Though "punks" may very well be rather more visible in, say, "squater-movements"). Finally, the reason why this is, I think, is because there is a somewhat anti-intellecturalistic feeling inherent in "punk-culture" -extremely weird considering all the sloganeering! (Surely people would like to educate tehirselves, not just take all they here on face-value). The other reason, no surprices here, I think is that much of the lifestyle is based on being drunk or "high". Best Wishes,

I agree. punk can be used to describe not just musical style but anything. it depends on who says the word as to what it means to them. To me, punk is a musical style and a way of rebellion. Althouhgt there are many great punk bands, punk is mostly denoted my media and what the members of the bands say. Jonny Rotten from the sex pistols is one of the original punks, and could be said to denote what punk means.

intellectual goodies? lol

wow, what was that goth story-telling band? I don't mind straight up labels, I guess b/c I don't really use them but could care less if others do. I guess it's good for those people who don't listen to a lot of music but know they want to listen to a certain type, eg, an older woman who wants to hear a jazz song and can then search out jazz music easier on the web or wherever. This isn't my way as there are tons of groups in every genre that are amazing and if you actively take part in your music it's probably pretty hard to classify them (for example, the punk hookum jazz band The Molestics are hardly jazz that an old lady may like...maybe an awsome one), and musicians themselves often classify themselves differently. Billy Bragg STILL calls himself and his music punk, even though its straight up folk and pretty mellow. oh, although I do hate genres merely for all of these pretentious kids out there who insist on only listening to bands with genres consisting of no less than three categories. Third wave euro folk ska anyone? And I'd like to point out that safety pins were being sold as "punk" and on ripped-up cloths in england while the sex pistols were still around. Malcolm mclaren made them. Oh, Punk. On that note, apparently there is now spray-on-dirt to crustify your skid jacket, is that a rumor. God help us all.

The word 'punk' was originally US prison slang for 'catamite'. Musically speaking, it was first applied post mortem to the US garage bands* of the mid 60s which sprung up in the wake of the British Invasion (the Standells, the Seeds, the 13th Floor Elevators etc.) - most of whom can be found on Lenny Kaye's 1974 Elektra compilation albums 'Nuggets'. They were largely defined by their lack of commercial success - and were all the more endearing for that.
The mid 70s' punk movement soon acquired the alternative moniker of 'New Wave'*
*These terms are hardly unique, either. There is, apparently, a modern type of music labelled 'garage' (pronounced in the English fashion - rhymes with marriage rather than barge!) - mercifully I don't really know what it is.
New Wave, of course, previously referred to French filmmakers such as Godard, Chabrol, Resnais etc.)