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# Saskia Sassen at DiEM25's "Next stop 2019?"
- URL: https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/saskia-sassen-at-diem25s-next-stop-2019/
- Published: 2017-08-24T18:08:16.000Z
- Updated: 2026-04-22T08:15:25.000Z
- Description: "You don’t need to change everything to bring foundational change." (Video, 5 mins)
- Author: Saskia Sassen
- Tags: #Migrated, #appended-excerpt, Europe, DiEM25, #en, #Import 2026-04-09 14:56

"So it seems to me that one question we might want to ask is: how do complex systems change? So let’s think DiEM. DiEM wants to make a significant change in how things are running, the distribution of the goodies, all of that. Now if it is the case and I think that it is the case, that complex systems change not by changing everything - if you want to change everything you have a major challenge - but if they change by just shifting certain capabilities from one type of organising logic to another type of organising logic - the shift from mass consumption to the current period - then you are dealing with a very different mode from which you can intervene to change a complex system. DiEM then represents one set of strands….you don’t need to change everything to bring foundational change."

*Video from DiEM25's "Next Stop 2019?" event in Berlin, 25 May 2017.*

"You don’t need to change everything to bring foundational change." *(Video, 5 mins)*