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Tony Curzon Price's foreword

Antony Lerman's introduction

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Peter Oborne and James Jones Comment is Free piece

the Jerusalem Post reacts

Mr Oborne suggests that I

Mr Oborne suggests that I intimidated Jonathan Dimbleby by complaining to the BBC about his article on Index on Censorship. In fact my complaint was primarily directed at Mr Dimbleby’s refusal to withdraw the article after I had pointed out that it was inaccurate and misleading. I suggest a simpler explanation for Mr Dimbleby’s reluctance to talk about this. His conduct shows him up as biased, ignoring journalist ethics in not checking the facts with those whom he criticised before publishing, and lacking integrity in not withdrawing his article when it was shown to be misleading. And yes, I do think his conduct has shown that he is not suitable for the highly sensitive role of chairing Any Questions and Any Answers. For more detail see my letter to Index on Censorship (scroll down to the last comment): http://www.indexoncensorship.org/2009/05/dimbleby-fearful-bbc-risks-losing-its-way/

Turner's solipsism is such

Turner's solipsism is such that he clearly regards what he has to say as the last word ('scroll down to the last comment') on the subject. His desire to silence opposition to his own ethnic-agenda fuelled diatribes is tellingly revealed in these six little words.

Turner's solipsism is such

Turner's solipsism is such that he clearly regards what he has to say as the last word ('scroll down to the last comment') on the subject. His desire to silence opposition to his own ethnic-agenda fuelled diatribes is tellingly revealed in these six little words.

I had just seen the program,

I had just seen the program, wow, so amazing and truthful, too bad that such small minority can influence our foreign policy 

Hmmm...talking of 'small

Hmmm...talking of 'small minorities' with a disproportionate amount of socio-political-economic power in Britain - yes, I'm talking about the English upper classes here:  Since Peter Oborne's wiki bio informs us that he was educated at Sherborne College (a posh boarding school) and Cambridge University (again with a disproportionate percentage of toffs), one might deduce that he might have one or two 'friends in high places', too.  Unfortunately, it's less of a case of some of these snobs loving the Palestinians as hating the Jews.

I think this is very unfair

I think this is very unfair on Peter. He goes to great length to distinguish his criticism of some in Israel from criticism of Jews - a point also made by Tony Lerman in his introduction, above.

It is a shame that the

It is a shame that the programme did not investigate the reason why the Jewish community in Britian are so vocal.  It is because British antisemitism existed long before the State of Israel was created.  The State of Israel is the Jewish State. A country created to allow Jews who were  subject to worldwide antisemitism to find a refuge. Sadly, antisemitism has increased in the disguise of anti Israel sentiment. This is particularly true of British Unions.  The Channel 4 programme tonight did not help. Their was no mention that there are many Christian Friends of Israel and that the CFI also promotes Conservative ideals , fights terrorism, combats antisemitism and is for a two state solution to teh Isarel/Palestinian issue.

I entirely agree on the

I entirely agree on the historical fact and importance of European anti-semitism. But isn't transparency in the activity of the lobby actually the best antidote to the mad and bad conspiracy theorists?

I would like to draw RS to

I would like to draw RS to examine the work of Jewish peace organizations in Israel and abroad. It is not anti-semitism to question a government that uses banned weapons against civilians in a war zone. A cry of anti-semitism is a common reaction to any criticism of Israel - but justice knows no religion. We need a solution to this problem, and until the world's leaders stand up and tell both sides "no more!" we will not have one.

The program raises more

The program raises more questions than it answers, specifically whether UK political parties should raise their campaigning funds via Pro-Israeli businessmen and Pro-Israeli lobbyist groups. The way these particular interests flood the conference centers with their united voice undermines real democracy in a country already pandering to foreign interests against the wishes of the UK electorate. Mr Blair's role in Israel is still questionable, especially when you consider the land grabbing going on illegally and the building of shopping malls and houses by supposedly british businessmen or their intermediaries. I have always argued that the Govt. has created too many quango's and so called business forums who appear to be unaccountable and whose operations are a mystery to the public. Perhaps we need to see a culling of these shady organisations, given their links to Pro-Israeli interests. As for bullying the BBC and Guardian newspapers into retracting certain reports and/or articles due to inaccuracies. Perhaps the same accusers should look at their own inaccuracies, both historically and more recent. Bullying, intimidation and threats are the methods used by pro-israeli supporters, and this brings great shame on the larger jewish population in Britain. As for the alleged attacks on Jews in UK, I believe this is unfounded, and whilst there may have been instances of this in London, this is as much to do with increased reporting than actual events. There are more attacks on muslims and indians in UK, according to statistics than Jews. Finally, to call everyone who criticises Israel as anti-semitic is to stifle open discussion and debate. Whilst this method may work in Israel, it will not work in a country that has as its core value freedom of speech, and human rights. Whilst Israel has still to get a grip on these fundamental tenants of humanity, it has no right to withdraw them from its own citizens. 'In war, truth is the first casualty' Aeschylus.

I don't think there's

I don't think there's anything wrong with a political system being open to representation from (almost) all parties. It is a fact of globalisation that nations have complex interests in other nations' affairs. So let there be representation.

So, where you confidently talk about the ills of "pandering to foreign interests against the wishes of the UK electorate", I think _that_ is not the problem; the problem is how we have a fair and transparent way of determining what the interest of the UK electorate actually is. This is where the Obrone/Jones work intersects the critical question of democracy in the UK.

The premis:  Israel is a

The premis:  Israel is a pariah state: therefore any support group of questionable morality . The suggestion: A criminal underground of Jewish-Zionist bankers and politicians is in control, bumping off anyone who speaks out against the evil mother state.........yawn....... 

Ironically your reporters inadvertently blundered into a much more interesting subject - the (acknowledged) bias of BBC reporting - and it occurred to me that a programme on this subject would have been much more refreshing and engaging.  Hey, Channel 4 might even have taken the opportunity to expose the entrenched prejudice of their rivals, and soar above that moral swamp with a new, balaced and informed approach to Middel East coverage..... dream on.

Jeremy Bowen is an honest

Jeremy Bowen is an honest reporter who is neither for or against the state of Israel he merely says it how it is. One thing you can be certain of, it will be honest.

Why are jews so "touchy" when any criticism of their deplorable  behaviour towards the palestinians is raised? It seems to me that the more you whinge and whine the more despised you become. Treat your palestinian neighbours fairly and humanely and time will heal the huge rifts you have created in the area.

 

HR Huges - i feel you are

HR Huges - i feel you are conflating not only Jews and Israelis, but also bundling too many Israelis (and Jews) into an undifferentiated bucket. Indeed, the fact that you seem to be able to so naturally go from criticism of Israel  to the supposed despised status of Jews (I disagree entirely with you on that point of fact - Jews are not despised; Israelis are not despised and nor should either, as a category, be) supports all those who feel that antisemitism is always so close to the surface of European consciousness that extreme defensiveness is always called for.

You spell my surname Hughes

You spell my surname Hughes Mr Price ok.  As far as I can see,  I don't think I mentioned the state of Israel once in my reply.

To be honest,  (and now I do mention the Israeli forces) the IDF acted in a barbaric way towards the Palestinians, white phosphorous, depleted uranium shells and bombs. Would you call their behaviour worthy of respect, I don't think so.

If they want to go on about the holocaust then let them first look at what they do to their neighbours. It is their uncivilised behaviour in the region that causes them to be despised.

My grandparents are Jewish and they are  ashamed of the way Israel carries on and so am I.

Johnny, Of course the worry

Johnny, Of course the worry with a piece like this is that it will reinforce the mad and bad who believe in the Conspiracy of the Elders of Zion. But Peter and James go, I think, to great lengths to distance themselves from any hint of support of this kind of madness. Indeed, they make the point,  convincing in my view, that the kind of opacity that they investigate actually dangerously encourages a conspiratorial and sinister view. There is nothing like transparency and openness to diffuse unnatural suspicion.

It all makes sense now.  I

It all makes sense now.  I was baffled why decent human beings (UK MPs) couldn't condemn Israel's use of weapons of mass destruction against defenceless Palestinians.  The war crimes commited by using phosphorous bombs against children.  The apartheid that is perpetrated by the Israeli state and why the disgraced BBC refused to support aid for Palestinians after the Israeli atrocities.  In light of the MPs expenses scandal I should have know human rights is down to the highest bidder.

At last! the dispatches

At last! the dispatches joined the struggle to reveal the truth,not just the Guardian and BBC who had to endure attacks by lobbies mentioned on the programme.
Can't wait for the political parties to be funded by the tax payers,to rid  the British democracy  from Zionist lobbies.

I don't think there's

I don't think there's anything wrong with a pro-Israeli lobby. Nor do Peter and James, as they make clear in their pamphlet. What is wrong is a lack of transparency. What is wrong here is primarliy domestic and British -- and that is something we can do something about through reform of Parliament.

My impression paradoxically

My impression paradoxically after watching this tepid program that tried desperately but failed to prove conspiracies and illegalities, is that I understood why Israel needs lobbyists in Britain and I will become more vocal in my support. Peter Obourne looked positively miffed he wasn't able to dig up any dirt except that someone had shares in a shopping mall.  The film footage of suffering was only that of non-Israeli children. The children of Sderot also have shed blood and had been deliberately targeted by Hamas for years. Where was the BBC's concern for them in any purported attempt to be "balanced?" and unless I missed something has the Guardian ever written about their suffering? David Henshaw produced a documentary the aim of which seemed to be to perpetrate "comfortable" stereotypes about Jewish support for Israel. There are many left wing Jews who embrace Zionsim and Israel and many poor impoverished Jews living in and outside of Israel, both black and white who yearn for and love Eretz Israel. Supporters of Israel are a diverse group of Jews and non-Jews who in my experience desperately want peace and stability in the area. I never hear any Israel supporters call for the destruction of any other people, yet sadly this mantra is all too often voiced against Israel. Disappointingly this Dispatches program assumes dichotomies that serve only to perpetrate stereotypes and does not give a broad balanced overview of a complex subject.

I think you have "missed

I think you have "missed something" with regard to Guardian reporting. Here's a few of their articles on Sderot :

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jun/13/israel1

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jan/18/sderotbeseigedandabandoned

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/may/23/israel

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/apr/17/whatilearnedinsderot

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/nov/27/israel1

Mrs AG the refugees in Gaza

Mrs AG the refugees in Gaza come from Sderot! The rightful owners of land in Sderot were terrorised by the zionists and not allowed to return under the Universal Right of Return!

HUmans rights and International Law does not apply to Israel. Just as Israel has NUCLEAR WEAPONS and BIOLOGICAL AND CHEMICAL WEAPONS but ensure no investigation takes place through the puppets in the US Senate and British Parliament!

Hence this documentary was so important.

 

 

 

I don't think that Peter

I don't think that Peter Oborne was trying to suggest that the pro Israel lobby is a conspiracy, just very very organised and able to 'punch above its weight'.

I think critics of Israel do owe it to try to understand the mindset of Israelis as a people before weighing in.  I once asked Shimon Perez how the Israelis, as a people who during the Jewish diaspora suffered so much could visit further suffering on the Palestinians.  His answer was that while it might not be right it was understandable - and I think we do need to understand (ie comprehend as opposed to condone).

Many Isrealis, and non Israeli Jews, see another holocaust as a real possibility and that criticism of Israel as the thin end of a wedge that driven in will open the way for anti semitism.  I quite understand their vigilance.

However when the pro Israel lobby over reacts, tries to shut down reasoned debate and throws around charges of antisemitism in response to reasoned criticism then it risks desensitising people to antisemitism when it does occur.  If you cry wolf too often, or if you cry antisemitism when it's not warranted, sooner or later a significant section of the international audience will switch off - and that really would be dangerous.

 

well said, tpb

well said, tpb

In response to Zac's

In response to Zac's statement about there being more attacks on Muslims than Jews, surely the issue is that there should not be attacks on either Jews or Muslims.

I know of many young Jewish people who are harangued, taunted and harassed regularly . My friend's son has been attacked twice but is still scared to go the police or to fight back. He was attacked for being Jewish and the language levelled is often about Israel and so called "Jewish control of the world."  Programs ( or should I call them Po-grams?) which portray "Zionists" as controlling the media and political policy, incite these attacks on Jews.

There is no difference between claiming  "Jews control the media" and "Zionists control the media." Both are wrong and both inflame hatred towards Jews.  I listened to a long ranting diatribe a year ago by a cafe owner who spoke openly and loudly about how "Jews control the world, the banks,  the media and politics"  and no one challenged him except me. Oborne, maybe unwittingly, will now have given more fodder to anti-semites, who will vent their spleen against Jews and Israel citing Oborne as their hero and co-conspirator.

Now I am reading these responses I feel more strongly Dispatches was not brave, original or convincing but divisive. And Israel alone cannot solve the problems in the Middle East, the West Bank is west of Jordan and Gaza borders Egypt. What are Jordan and Egypt doing to help solve the crisis?

What an absolute load of

What an absolute load of codswallop.

What in heavens name is the problem with Jews, or indeed anyone else, disagreeing with what they see and hear in the media, or in lobby groups doing their job, which is to lobby politicians to favour a particular cause, or in PR operations seeking to promote a particular line in the press.

Except with jews, the suggestion is that there is something sinister, and that is the programme's offence.

So, the BBC decided not to broadcast an appeal for Palestinian victims of the Gaza conflict.  Where was the  evidence that the BBC was leaned on by Zionists?  There was none. So, Lord Levy's role as Middle East envoy was questionable.  But where was the evidence of his role in the lobby?  There was none.  Or any hint that he claims to be a Socialist and that his position on Israel is decidedly left of centre.  But then that would disturb the notion that the so-called lobby consists of right wing fanatics. 

And if Poju is so wealthy, why should he possibly be bothered about what happens to a small stake that one of his companies owns in a small shopping centre in a small Israeli Jerusalem suburb on the Arab side of the Green Line?  In terms of his personal situation, he is probably more concerned about  how this country is governed, and why therefore he donated money to the Conservatives.  Ditto the other donors to the Conservative Party, who happen to be members of Conservative Friends of Israel because,  not surprisingly, they are Conservatives and friends of Israel. Geddit? 

And yes, Jews are significant donors to political parties.  But where is the evidence that their purpose is to promote Israel?  Why are they not just like other significant donors who might happen to support a particular political party, or might want to extend their influence for all sorts of reasons?

There can only be one reason.  They are nasty pro-Israel Jews who are up to no good on nasty Israel's behalf.

If that is right, and there is this all powerful and terrifying lobby at work, how does that explain the unfettered editorial policies of the Guardian and Independent amongst others, the plethora of anti Israel books and plays, the unrestrained anti-Zionism on campus and the British Government's recent failure to stand up for Israel in the UN and elsewhere?

It means that the so-called lobby is bloody useless, or that it is in fact no more than a hotch potch of a few small and underfunded and unco-ordinated organisations which would dearly love to have the level of influence that the producers of this programme think they have.

But hey, why confuse a good story with the facts, especially where those nasty pro Israel Jews are concerned.

 

 

But Peter and James weren't

But Peter and James weren't looking into donations by Jews to political parties, nor do they claim that all Jews donating to political parties or involved in politics are there to promote Israel. You seem to be making an unhelpful conflation.

Given the almost total

Given the almost total acquiescence of Britain’s political and media elite to the Israel lobby the programme was a brave piece of journalism by Mr Oborne and Channel 4. The complete lack of transparency about what is going on in Britain’s name is an indictment not just of the politicians who kiss the lobby’s ring, but of the journalists and proprietors who remain silent when it comes to reporting the lobby.

I thought the case of Jonathan Dimbleby was particularly instructive as to the sort of standards that prevail when it comes to the lobby: he writes an article on the BBC’s Trust’s investigation and criticism of Jeremy Bowen, and now he too is being investigated by the very same Trust.

And where’s the fearless organisations dedicated to freedom of speech (Liberty etc) and transparency in government? No doubt like the rest of our political class - compromised or subdued by the lobby.

The influence and opaqueness of the lobby gives rise to the question of whose interest are our political class working for when it comes to the Middle East: ours or Israel’s?

The question raised is wider

The question raised is wider than "How is our Middle East policy made"? Surely it is "How are any of our policies made"? It is not "the" lobby, it is the the lobbies.

Oborne has done a great job.

Oborne has done a great job. This very sad sick country is being run and controlled by greedy self interested politicians who don't give a hoot about people in this country. The fact that we struggle day by day to live with the knowledge that our elected representatives support such vile regimes as the apartheid state of Israel is bad enough to discover that the only reason is to line their pockets is disgusting. We cannot afford a Conservative victory, the Labour Party is no better Lib Dem the same mould.

We need new rules, if they have to be funded to be able to get their message across let it be by the public purse. Better still let the only medium for political utterances be the BBC, we pay for that anyway, and lets have a committee of the general public to beat them, Israeli style when they don't do what we want,

 

 

But Oborne and James

But Oborne and James precisley don't talk about Israel being a "vile regime" or an "apartheid state". They write: "Israel is a wonderful and extraordinary country with a rich and flourishing democratic history. Founded in terrible circumstances in the immediate aftermath of the Holocaust and World War Two, it has a profound right to exist."

Nor do they imply that the politicians are "lining their pockets" with donations -- after all, political donations go to cover expenses of their political work.

We need new rules, yes. But not because of any particular policy outcome, but because we need to be able to trace policy outcomes to a legitimate process.

Attempts made to

Attempts made to influence/coerce journalists ( now common practice) is tantamount to censorship.

Ipsofacto,broadly speaking, there is no longer a free media in Britain.Biais is a convenient construct to block an opinion that disagrees with another.

While I can understand both the concept and practice of lobbying for a company I am deeply concerned at the vigerous and  highly organised attempts to lobby on behalf of a country.Surely  events should speak for themselves and need no interpretation.

Politicians must now be funded by the tax-payer and no longer susceptible to behind the sceen handshakes.

I don't think there is

I don't think there is anything in itslef wrong with countries lobbying. We have legitimate interests in each others' affairs. Complicated, but unavoidable.

And tax-payer funding is not the panacea. It gives a very strong advantage to incumbents which can also make a political system very unresponsive.

If the so called Israel lobby

If the so called Israel lobby is so influencial with parliament, why did the current government not 1) condemn the Goldstone Report, 2) insist that Israel stops settlement building, 3) insist that Israel give back the Golan to Syria, 4) and refuse to move its embassy to Jerusalem?  

Excellent reporting. It is

Excellent reporting. It is very important for democracy that we know who is funding politicians and parties, and what they get in return. Israel is shameful in its attempts to manipulate the political process here, and at the same time stifle free speech and the very necessary debate over its inhuman occupation and denial of the most basic human rights to the indigenous population of Palestine. Apartheid in the West Bank is morally corrupt, and attempts to intimidate editors only confirm the bankruptcy of Israel's arguments. They are international bullies and pariahs. 

The Dispatches programme

The Dispatches programme confirmed the, endemic, corruption of politics in an imperialist, capitalist system where money dictates everything.

"Behind every great fortune lies a great crime"  Balzac.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace".  Jimi Hendrix.

Without imperialism, capitalism, religion; there would be no need for: wars, corruption, poverty.  Barry Wood.

 

 

Well Eric you have strong

Well Eric you have strong views about the international power you feel Israel wields. 

It must be a huge country with enormous resources, Maybe it holds the world's oil supplies?  Just let me check on the map.  No that's Saudi Arabia. Let me investigate this a bit further, Saudi has no democracy and beheads women for adultery. Is that morally corrupt?  Does the west in any way kowtow to them? Let me think about that, the west bombed Iraq as they had a dictator but meanwhile scraped and bowed to unelected Saudi Royalty who control their country just as Europe was controlled in the Middle Ages by Kings and Queens . I guess though, the term pariah, does not apply to Saudi Arabia? Could you say what your position is regarding Saudi Arabia? And regarding China?  China has enormous global influence and has systematically oppressed the people of Tibet. Do you judge all countries by the same criteria?   

Israel is a country where there is dire poverty with many of its inhabitants living in constant threat of being bombed. And children in Sderot are targeted deliberately by Hamas. Those children live under aparthied, they are  targeted because they are Jews and a "hit" is celebrated. 

There are many forms of bullying. If you don't like bullying and are sincere about it then you will condemn all forms of bullying. If you hate children suffering then you will hate all children suffering.  

Many of the indignant outraged voices about Israel will not protest about Jewish children being killed by Hamas. It is not politically correct. But maybe you are more egalitarian with your condemnation.

BTW, the word pariah comes from the root word  paṛaiyar  in Tamil which means an  low caste, an touchable.

 

 

I am loathed to criticise

I am loathed to criticise British Jews for supporting a cause that they passionately believe in.

What I do criticise is a corrupt political system that allows a disproportionate and rather sinister influence of Labour and Conservative Friends of Israel on Britain's Foreign Policy. 

The programme was right to point out that many ordinary British Jews do not share the extreme and uncritical Zionism of those in leadership positions in British Jewry. 

It is in Britain's national interest that there is peace in the Middle East and this is not going to be achieved without meaningful pressure and sanctions against the Jewish State. "Constructive Engagement" and "friendship" have been proved time and time again not to work. Israeli governments of all political complexions have regarded this policy as a green light to steal more and more Palestinian land and to use wholly disproportionate  violence against Arab civilians. 

What is equally depressing is the lack of a meaningful national debate. A majority of our political leaders are self declared Zionists, The BBC is cowed into submission and much of our media is controlled by a Christian Zionist, Rupert Murdoch. In this fog of disinformation, almost the only beacons of light are the Guardian, Channel Four and Al Jazeera. 

As someone who cares about justice for the Palestinians, who do I vote for at the next General Election ? 

Do I live in a meaningful democracy when there is no effective choice on an issue is important as this ?

Zionism is itslef a complex

Zionism is itslef a complex ideology. It shouldn not become a short hand for "all that is reprehensible in Israeli politics". Look at this article and all that it says about what Zionism could have been, and, argues the author, could be: http://www.opendemocracy.net/article/dear-dov-yermiya

Vote for independants or look

Vote for independants or look at the track record of the individual for example George Galloway, Jeremy Corbin etc.

Once the MP's realise they don't have to fear the CFI and LFI the zionist influence will start to disappear and then we can have sincere foreign policy in the middle east.

It amazes me how Obama and Brown claim they can do nothing to stop settlements! Well how about cutting the billions of dollars of financial and military aid to Israel? I think the zionists will soon come running to the table for a solution.

The problem is the US politicians are even more fearful of the zionists lobby than the British MP's and Brown, Blair, Clinton, Obama have never been sincere about peace in the middle east.

The more independant MP's the better. The power will hopefully be more distributed.

 

I agree fully with these

I agree fully with these sentiments. It was a brave piece of well researched and objectively delivered facts which the media have shied away from for so many years.

What is depressing is the fact that people can listen to intelligent Jewish intellectuals and religious leaders speaking of the problems of the lobby and still claim anti-semitism. This is the charge that is used repeatedly whenever there is any legitimate criticism of Israel. How much longer will people fear criticizing a democratically elected government which practises apartheid against a huge number of citizens within that state being held in what is in effect a gigantic prison. 

more info about zionism

more info about zionism at

http://islamozionism.blogspot.com/

It is important to say what

It is important to say what we did not find. There is no conspiracy, and nothing resembling a conspiracy.

what conspiracy were you looking for?

how can government / opposition policy be a conspiracy , its all visible and above board. we support israel and zionisms sibling neo conservatism without any sense of it being wrong. now just tuck in and finish that bagel.

OK Tony, there are many

OK Tony, there are many demonic regimes in the world, Israel is not one of them.  Like Eric, my feeling is that you reserve your judgement and indignity for blaming Israel for all the things that you feel are unconscionable in the world. 

You believe that if things are "put right" with regards to Israel then in a domino effect everything else in the Middle East will just fall into place. Most of the conflicts in the MIddle East have nothing to do with Israel. Interfaction warfare between Muslim sects; and Hamas stifling all competition by murdering them, are issues that will continue to exist regardless of what Israel does and does not do.

Historically, Jews have been the scapegoat for the world's ills. Blaming Israel, a small country, consisting of millions of Jews, Muslims, Druze and Christians with full citizenship, and a sizeable number of Jews who fled persecution from Arab and African countries is not going to resolve the complex and continuing conflicts in the region. 

Often the word "indigenous" is used when talking about Israel, there has been a Jewish population in Jerusalem for thousands of years and in 1948 the Jewish Quarter in Jerusalem was ransacked by the Arab Legion.  A photographer John Philips managed to smuggle out photographs showing the persecution of Jews in Jerusalem at this time.

If you want to examine the whole picture in Britain with regards to Middle East politics and influencing factors,  you have to also look at University campuses where aggression and open hostility against Israel and Jews has become the norm with many Jewish students feeling intimidated and fearful. 

What do you want to happen? Do you want Israel to give up its existence? Would that satisfy your sense of indignation? What do  you suspect would happen if Israel was forced to succumb to Hamas?

You live in the UK. Like someone else pointed out Oborne has a priviledged background. Ironically I find that many middle class white British people align themselves with regimes that do not tolerate many of the rights and liberties  that British people take for granted.

There are  many Israelis involved in projects on equal footing with Muslims and Christians; medical, dental, community health and social welfare projects. I don't think you realise how diverse life is in Israel.  A study by  IDI Guttman  in 2008 showed that most Israeli-Arabs identify themselves first as Arabs (45%), and that only 24% consider themselves Palestinian." Amongst Jews there are different cultures existing alongside each other. 

 If you read the manifesto of Hamas you will find that this is not the type of society they want. Jews, would not have full rights of citizenship in Gaza. 

I am somewhat baffled, Mrs A

I am somewhat baffled, Mrs A G, by how you have made these inferences about my views. It makes me suspect that beliefs come in pretty standard packages in your world view...

You baffle easily Tony. For

You baffle easily Tony. For 50 minutes the program described a Jewish conspiracy - various organisations covertly bullying, bribing, distorting, suppressing and corrupting. (Jewish yes - most know that 95% of self identifying Jews are Zionists). This reality was hardly even touched by the non-sensical "of course there isn't a conspiracy" non-caveat at the end.

Absent

  1. Any of the damned replying.
  2. The posing of the key question "Why do they need a lobby"?

Unsurprising then the age old canards suppressed for decades emerge with such passion and force. Read the comments - C4, CIF, here, all over - its a tsunami of hate. Perhaps your superior brain inhabits a world view that deems this to be a "good thing" - hence you being baffled.

btw Here is my world view. There is much adversity in the world. Over a billion people impacted. Most of this it ignored. Yet so much moral outrage energy is consumed by the Israel/Palestine issue. Why? This is the REAL conspiracy that needs investigating. Any ideas as to why no one seems to care?

It's kind of you, waga, to

It's kind of you, waga, to come in and answer for Mrs A G, but I was talking about what I have written, here and in my introduction. Since I don't appear in the film, I presume that is what Mrs A G was basing her inferences on. But maybe we should let her speak?

Mrs. A. G. you talk about

Mrs. A. G. you talk about full rights of citizenship when the state of Israel is openly racist! Look at what rights Israel gives to non-Jews and how non-Jews are treated!

The fact of the matter is Israel was created through terrorism. The  Palestinians (muslim and christians) have no problem with Jews who have settled in Palestine through peaceful means. The jews have lived peacefully in Palestine for centuries. The attacks you refer to were a response to zionist terrorism on the Palestinians.

The issue in occupied Palestine is not religious but political. If you know anything about Islam then you will know that Muslims accept all the prophets including the prophets mentioned in Judaism and Christianity. So on a theological level they have no major issues with Christians and Jews and many cultural aspects such as Kosher/Halal, Modesty, Sex outside of Marriage etc are similar between Judaism and Islam.

The zionists are keen to hide behind Judaism, when we know many Jews reject zionism. Some jews have been fooled into thinking Israel will provide security. Like when zionists terrorised the Jews of Iraq and forcing them to migrate to Occupied Palestine.

To criticise Israel in not anti semitic. The zionists try to use the holocaust to silence any criticism and frankly people are getting sick and tired of such nonsense!

Now remember there is nothing more anti-semitic than ZIONISM!

John1232009 - The

John1232009 - The Oborne/James pamphlet is not about the nature of Israel or its - internally much contested - concept of the State. You'll find  many article threads with a great deal of discussion on oD about that (quite a few of them collected here: http://www.opendemocracy.net/editorial_tags/middle_east).

A brave attempt and an

A brave attempt and an eye-opener. I congratulate Peter Oborne for daring to expose the lobby's behind the scene bullying of journalists and use of money to corrupt the conscience of our politicians. During the Gaza war, I couldn't comprehend why British politicians are refusing to even issue an appeal to Israel to stop the bombardment, despite all the images of dead children and terrified civilian population flashed across TV. Now I know why.

The lobby is out again, looking at the responses at this forum. Same old arguments, Hamas-bashing and attempts to portray Israel as victim without answering any of the specific allegations levelled against Israel. And if nothing works, shout loudly that those questioning Israel's human rights records, its subjugation of Palestinians and its utter disregard of UN resolutions are all anti-Semites. And if those raising these concerns happen to come from Jewish community then brand them self-hating Jews!

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