Interview by Jesse Brown
George Kassimeris, a Senior Research Fellow in Conflict and Terrorism at Wolverhampton University, is the editor of The Barbarisation of Warfare just published by Hurst. He specialises in terrorism and political violence. He also writes regularly for the Wall Street Journal Europe and the International Herald Tribune and broadcasts on terrorism and Greek current affairs for the BBC.
Madrid11: Was there anything different or striking about this plot? Should we be surprised in anyway?
Dr. Kassimeris: Apart from the fact that this latest attempt shows that the militant Islamists remain obssessively determined on inflicting catastrophic human casualties, no - I don't think that we should be surprised. The magnitude of the plot and the imagination of the plotters may have come to some as a surprise but with the fifth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks looming into the horizon a maximum symbolic value of an attack was always going to be on the cards.
Madrid11: These plans had been underway for months, but do you see a connection between the timing of the attacks and the crisis in the Middle East between Israel and Lebanon?
Dr. Kassimeris: Timing is everything when it comes to launching a terrorist assault and so is symbolism. There are those who argue that political events can influence a terrorist agenda but they do not define it. However, I personally think that the tragically worsening situation in Lebanon has a lot to do with this thwarted plot. I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that the plotters decided on bringing the entire operation forward because of Lebanon.
Madrid11: What mistakes, if any, do you think have been made in Western-Middle East relations recently?
Dr. Kassimeris: It is less a question of mistakes and more of a question of deliberately missed opportunities coming back to haunt us. Let's take the latest, in a long series of mistakes, made in West-Middle Eastern relations - the situation in Lebanon.
For almost a month now Israel has besieged and ravaged Lebanon, creating in the process a humanitarian disaster by destroying the country's economy and expensively restored infrastructure. Israel has a problem, Hizbullah, which I can understand. But, I wonder, is inflicting massive casualties on all Lebanese, killing indiscriminately more than 1100 Lebanese civillians - many of them children - the way to resolve or deepen the Arab-Israeli conflict? Shouldn't the United Nations, together with the US and Britain, have exercised their power and leverage to push early on for an unconditional and comprehensive ceasefire, and an exchange of prisoners on both sides? It’s allies should never have allowed Israel to 'turn the clock back on Lebanon for 20 years', for it has achieved the same for West-Middle Eastern relations.
Madrid11: You’ve recently published a book, the Barbarization of Warfare. How, if at all, would you say this relates to terrorism?
Dr. Kassimeris: In the bleak environment of early twenty-first century, when war, terrorism and torture are quickly becoming addictive media spectacles, it is more necessary than ever to deepen our knowledge and understanding of the brutality currently displayed by human beings and taking place not only on the battlefield. This new book, I'm proud to say, is the first collaborative effort where world-class scholars such as Niall Ferguson, Joanna Bourke and Richard Overy among others to explore the effects of the barbarisation of warfare on our cultures and societies.
Madrid11: With several arrests in Pakistan, linked to the case, what are some of the more intricate reasons that the country has become a breeding ground for Jihadist/anti-western sentiment?
Dr. Kassimeris: Pakistan is seen by some US and UK intelligence officials as rapidly becoming a centre of international, jihadist militant terrorism. They point out that the majority of the plotters arrested are primarily of Pakistani origin who have visited the country on several occassions. The Pakistani government is a key ally of Britain and the US in the war against the 'Islamic fascists' - to use President Bush's phraseology - which it does not go down well with the general population and especially with imams in madrassas.
Madrid11: The NY Times mentions ‘disaffected British born Muslims.’ Reflecting on 7/7 and the Paris riots, do you see a significant identity problem growing within European born Muslims, and why has it reached such serious heights in the last two years?
Dr. Kassimeris: I don't think there is much connection between the British born Muslims behind the 7/7 attacks and the youngsters who devastated in rage Parisian suburbs earlier this year. In France, the problem stems from long-festering societal alienation and failed integration the part of the Arab Muslim and non-Muslim I hasten to add community. The young Parisians, on the other hand, when they do come out of their claustrophobic banlieues, they burn cars and fight the police for days on end because they feel that their life is going nowhere, there is no way out and want to make their anger known. That's all there is to it.
To answer this question we need to see what the facts on the ground are. And the facts of the ground are that a number (thankfully not significant enough yet) of young British born Muslims have chosen to channel their anger via religious-driven political violence. The fact that they are prepared to commit suicide in order to advance their positions does not suggest to me an existential identity crisis but a zero-sum game mentality.
From Ulrike Meihof and Renato Curcio to Timothy McVeigh and the Madrid bombers, the history of modern terrorism is full of groups and individuals with such mentality who, in their attempts to right real or imagined wrongs, resort to intransigent political terrorism combined with a fanatical determination to engage in a life-or-death confrontation with the 'enemy'. I think we should place the 7/7 bombers and the Heathrow plotters in that category, if they ever end up being prosecuted.
